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Thread: Nullification

  1. #1
    Plinker
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    Nullification

    Can the State of Indiana pass an amendment to the Indiana Constitution that eliminate the requirements of Obama-care, Eliminate the requirements for Min Wage, Let me buy Health Insurance from whomever I want, Get out of the Education Business, Create it's own Currency?

    The answer to all the above is yes, except currency. The Federal constitution allows the states to pay their debts in gold or silver (If you read it, the states are actually required to pay their debts in Gold and Silver.) If that is the case, a note that is directly transferable to gold or silver would work fine, (which is the way banks created their own money before the Civil War and before the Fed and it's predecessor which funded the Civil War.)

    We have shifted so far to the 'left', we no longer have a fair gauge of what is 'right'. We count ourselves as free, but we have nothing to use as an example of what freedom is. Example:

    • our military is used as a World Wide Police Force. WE have to fund the expeditions to 'save' every other country from themselves.
    • We encourage idiots that are too lazy to find a job or mow a lawn or wash a car to steal my money from me, while punishing me for being successful or working hard. (The average Unemployment cost to an employer is 2.5% of the Gross. If you saved your own unemployment, would you be better off or worse off? You could put that into an account and save your own unemployment, invest how you want. I bet you could get a better return on the money then the government taking it and 'holding it for you' in case you lose your job.)
      • Why should i work hard? Why should I put more effort into my business so the money I pay in taxes can go to someone else that had overextended themselves and can't pay their house payment?
      • Why should I go to work? My money goes to someone else that is having a hard time in life. so maybe I should start having hard times


    The end of this rant is a question. Are we willing to nullify the laws that are unconstitutional? Does the Hoosier State have the intestinal fortitude to do what Montana is doing? Do we have the strength as a State Population to force our governor to be a Hoosier version of Jan Brewer? All of us talk a big game on these forums. We all do great behind a monitor with a keyboard. When will be be the Political force we can be?

    Thoughts?


    References:
    Great reference for economy:
    Seven Deadly Cracks and The False Recovery | The Real Truth About Money

    Nullify and what other states are doing:
    Arizona Senate Passes Bill To Let State Nullify Federal Laws | TPMMuckraker

    Idaho and Nullify:
    Idaho Legislature Explores Nullifying ObamaCare - by Marc Kilmer

    Other Idaho and Nullify info from USA Today (big surprise i found it in there... honestly... USA today?)
    U.S. health care law not immune to nullification - USATODAY.com

  2. #2
    Plinker
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    What you speak of is fine in theory, but in the real world it does not work. In theory I'm with you, but applying that is not practical. I pay $700 a month in health insurance for me and my family, and we're in good health. With what you refer to as Obama Care, I would be paying about $525, not because the government is running it, but because they negotiated a better rate for me with the insurance company. If we get the lawyers and drug reps out of medicine we can actually save some money. As for the bank, Andrew Jackson tried it and it is not a recipe for success, and remember that before the civil war, it was The United States ARE, and now it's The United States IS, we became a country rather than a loose union, and our strength is in our unity. States rights are great in theory, but you want to be counted as one country. As for policing the world, I couldn't agree more, although I don't think you see the reason for this in the same light I do. We do it to protect the interest of large corporations. Look up some history on Ecuador from the late 60's to the late 80's, or Venezuela. We don't send troops to Congo even though the rate of the suffering is much higher, and that's because they have no natural recources that our large companies can make money off of, but we are all over Iraq. We are more to the left than anyone imagined in 1812, but it is still the best place to live, and if we learn to be just a touch less selfish, it would be even better.

  3. #3
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar
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    Can the State of Indiana pass an amendment to the Indiana Constitution that eliminate the requirements of Obama-care, Eliminate the requirements for Min Wage, Let me buy Health Insurance from whomever I want, Get out of the Education Business, Create it's own Currency?
    No, of course not.

    Supremacy Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Does the Hoosier State have the intestinal fortitude to do what Montana is doing?
    What? What do you think Montana is doing???

    Is this some Ron Paul or L. Neil Smith nonsense?
    Is it November 4th yet?

  4. #4
    Grandmaster Coach's Avatar
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    Nullification did not go well with the Tariff of 1828 uprising in South Carolina, and then that little thing of the Civil War settled the issue once again.
    No one is stronger or more dangerous than the man who can harness his emotions.


  5. #5
    Master SemperFiUSMC's Avatar
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    That darn pesky supremacy clause stops this stuff in its tracks every time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    The funny thing is the way they have the self congratulatory circle jerk whenever one of them says something they regard as clever.


    Allah u Fubar

  6. #6
    Plinker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necessary Evil View Post
    What you speak of is fine in theory, but in the real world it does not work. In theory I'm with you, but applying that is not practical. I pay $700 a month in health insurance for me and my family, and we're in good health. With what you refer to as Obama Care, I would be paying about $525, not because the government is running it, but because they negotiated a better rate for me with the insurance company.
    YOU NEED TO VERIFY THE TALKING HEADS YOU ARE PUKING UP HERE!!!!!


    the difference between the 700 and the 525 are the freeking fines that I will pay!!!! I will pay the Fines (AKA ANDOTHER FREEKING TAX!!!!!) so you can have your obama care!!!! Think about that.

    Those that create jobs by risking there homes, their cars, there kids futures, are now going to pay for you to have a lower health care....

    Here is a solution ... LET EVERY STATE DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES IF THEY WANT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!!!!


    • Let me buy my insurance from another state.
    • Instead of paying 80% of the bill if its Medicaid, and forcing the insurance company's to pick up the difference, pay all or nothing.
    • DON'T BUILD HOSPITALS ON THE GOVERNMENT DIME.... MY DIME!!!!
    • Stop forcing me to pay for health care in some other state!!! I shouldn't be paying for someone's Medicaid in California or New York or wherever!!!!
    • Allow Nurse's to see and treat patient's. Not just LPN's but RN's. RN's are the front lines anyway.
    • Make it harder to sue frivolously. See The TRUE Stella Awards -- Exposing Lawsuit Abuse with Real Cases for more details and examples.
      • Make it Loser Pay's. IE I sue Joe for 1 Mill, and lose... i pay Joe 1 Mil.



    Don't be a Useful Idiot (Stalin's words for people that just take the word of those in power over them)

    Another thing to think about.... HOW THE HELL DID WE EVER SURVIVE BEFORE HEALTH CARE?

    In case you want to pull the 'but you don't know how hard it is' card.... I have 6 childeren, one child with type 1 Diabetes, 1 child has a hole in his heart and has half of one lung removed, and one child has severe leg deformity's and has just gotten to walk at the age of 5. My health care is 3497 per month. I choose to pay out of pocket for my family's health care. I work hard to take care of my family and because of how hard I work, I deserve what I have. It's not my job to provide YOU with the health care.

    M

  7. #7
    Marksman
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    The Supremacy Clause only makes constitutional laws as the supreme law of the land. What the majority of the federal laws that are now passed is under the commerce clause. The commerce clause was only meant to prevent one state from taxing the goods that passed through it; it was not a means for the federal government to pass laws such as ObamaCare.

  8. #8
    Plinker
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    "States and people are not subservient to the federal government. After the Constitutional Convention members (the framers) completed their efforts on Sept. 17th, 1787 there was a long ratification process. The proposed Constitution was sent to the states and people debated across the United States over whether they would accept this as supreme when laws were made in Pursuance thereof. If laws are not made based on the enumerated guidance of our Constitution nullification by the states and people is not only a trump card, it is a sworn duty secured clearly within the 10th Amendment of the Bill of Rights and within every Oath of Office including the office of citizen."


    Ref:


    Paragraph excerp from State Nullification vs Federal Supremacy – Tenth Amendment Center


    treatment of the early republic recalls parts of American history that have vanished into the memory hole, including the crucially important Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions of 1798 and Thomas Jefferson’s belief that only state nullification of unconstitutional federal legislation, rather than "checks and balances" among the branches of the federal government itself, had a chance of keeping the federal government in check.


    Ref:

    [ame="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0895260476/lewrockwell/102-0084475-7689718"]The Politically Incorrect Guide to American History[/ame]
    , by Thomas E. Woods Jr.

    The first Kentucky Resolution, passed by the state legislature on November 16, 1798, stated that when the federal government exercised power not specifically delegated to it by the Constitution, each state could judge the validity of that action for itself. The Virginia Resolution of December 24, 1798, claimed that the states "have the right and are in duty bound to interpose for arresting the progress of the evil." Several northern states objected that the judiciary, not the states, should be the arbiter of constitutionality. The Kentucky legislature passed a second Resolution on November 22, 1799, arguing that a single state had the power to nullify a federal action it deemed unconstitutional.


    Unknown to contemporaries, the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions were drafted, respectively, by James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. The doctrines they enunciated were later cited by southern slaveholders in support of their right to secede from the Union. Yet it would be a mistake to conclude that either Jefferson or Madison truly wanted to dismantle the Union. The Resolutions are best understood in the context of the fierce political battles between Federalists and Jeffersonians in the 1790s and the prevailing theory of divided sovereignty. When John C. Calhoun evoked the Resolutions in the 1820s to support his own doctrine of nullification, he was solidly opposed by James Madison.


    Looks like this battle won't be decided on these forums though. Looks like Idaho and Arizona are gonna take this to the next level.

    Idaho House First to Nullify ObamaCare

    While I do think you are correct in the way things are being enterprited today, and you are correct in the enforcement, I believe the steps that will be most effective are the statement "No Idaho citizen shall enforce." That will force federal employees to do the collections???? I dunno... i just like the idea of States Rights.

    M


    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Freeman View Post
    No, of course not.

    Supremacy Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    What? What do you think Montana is doing???

    Is this some Ron Paul or L. Neil Smith nonsense?

  9. #9
    Plinker
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    Jungbauer 2010: Montana Declares State Rights Under the 10th Amendment

    In a nut shell, they are the most aggressive state when it comes to state sovereignty.

    Beck Video back in 09 covering this:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHwPHvkrGrg]YouTube - Napolitano on Beck: Montana 2nd Amendment and States Rights Part 2 (5-7-09)[/ame]

    This was published eight day's ago:
    (Ref. Montana Lawmakers and Others Flex Their States' Rights Muscles)

    Recently, Schweitzer squared off twice with the Department of the Interior. First he blocked plans for federal and state authorities to slaughter 500 wild bison to contain possible cases of the disease brucellosis and told the agency to find a better solution. He followed that with a letter to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar informing him of Montana's plans to disobey federal laws protecting endangered wolves because the animals were hunting and harassing livestock and elk herds. In both cases, the governor put his state's interests above what he saw as impractical federal laws.

    Hope this helps

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Freeman View Post
    What? What do you think Montana is doing???

  10. #10
    Plinker
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    I wish i could say that you were wrong... but i can't. In the two issues listed below Federal Supremacy was declared correct.

    Wasn't the Civil War declared Unconstitutional? I know i read that somewhere, but i can't find it. Anyone know or heard that?

    maybe I'm thinking of Posse Comitatus. Dont' know.

    Anyway.....

    Violent uprising is the wrong path. Not saying that. Saying when the Federal Government writes a law that violates the constitution, that law is null and void and is not enforceable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    Nullification did not go well with the Tariff of 1828 uprising in South Carolina, and then that little thing of the Civil War settled the issue once again.

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