Free speech under attack

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  • level.eleven

    Shooter
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    May 12, 2009
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    Can't get too upset with this one.

    Caminiti was found guilty by a jury in March of eight counts of conspiracy to commit child abuse for teaching church members what he said was a literal interpretation of discipline prescribed by the Bible, on children who were between the ages of 2 months and 5 years.
    The practice, intended to teach children to behave correctly, was stopped after police intervened in November 2010.
    "The children were beaten for of all things doing what children do, and that is crying," Sumi said.

    You don't beat infants and toddlers to get them to stop crying. Stay away from cults.

    More charges coming for the other cult members.

    http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_a8684e74-5428-11e0-b9d6-001cc4c03286.html

    The dowels were 12 inches to 18 inches long and the diameter of a quarter.

    Yeah. Don't hit kids with broom handles and you won't go to jail.
     

    edporch

    Master
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    25   0   0
    Oct 19, 2010
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    Indianapolis
    Combine this minister with Dane County, Wisconsin which is one of the most left wing places in the country, and I would bet that even if this minister ONLY advocated LIMITED spankings under a limited set of LAST resort circumstances, he'd STILL be in trouble there. :D
     

    Pocketman

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    If I understand this correctly, the article linked in the OP isn't telling the whole story?
     
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    Wow...some of the allegations are outrageous. Why what would happen if someone were to hit the diaper of a baby with a wooden spoon. The "thwack" would be loud but I'd dare say the pain to the child would be nonexistent. The sound itself would be the deterrent for the child.

    One additional story linked above says that the church members hit the children on their "bare skin." Another says that church members hit the children on their "back side." Talk about something that has the potential to be blown way out of proportion. The story isn't even congruent between the two articles.

    Also, one quote from the linked articles says:
    "While experts say there is no clear threshold that differentiates discipline from abuse, Schaffer said Wisconsin law considers child abuse to be anything excessive or beyond reasonable discipline."

    How would you like to be convicted under standards such as these?

    Doesn't the OP say that the pastor was convicted because of what he taught, not because of what he allegedly did? That is a huge difference. If true, this is a violation of the first amendment. Even if we disagree with the teaching on spanking (not abuse) we should support the right the pastor has to speak before his congregation.

    Of course, before I get lambasted for promoting child abuse, I must say that in no way do I advocate the abuse of children, though I am a proponent of disciplining children (and spanking is one form of discipline).
     

    level.eleven

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    May 12, 2009
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    Here you go. The police presser. A couple members of the cult were fed up with the child abuse and went to the police for help.

    These are sick individuals.

    During interviews with detectives, Phil expressed his belief that the Bible dictates the use of a rod over a hand to punish children. He stated that children only a few months old are “worthy” of the rod and that by “one and a half months,” a child is old enough to be spanked.

    In a criminal complaint Phil is quoted as saying “the scripture is never wrong” and “pain is a good way to teach children.”

    Eight Face Charges in Child Abuse Investigation - Dane County Press Releases

    Lots of links from this article to news sites and police pressers.

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2012/05/update_lori_wick/
     

    level.eleven

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    Doesn't the OP say that the pastor was convicted because of what he taught, not because of what he allegedly did? That is a huge difference. If true, this is a violation of the first amendment. Even if we disagree with the teaching on spanking (not abuse) we should support the right the pastor has to speak before his congregation.

    Thus, conspiracy.
     

    Booya

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    44   0   0
    Aug 26, 2010
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    Fort Fun
    Here you go. The police presser. A couple members of the cult were fed up with the child abuse and went to the police for help.

    These are sick individuals.

    During interviews with detectives, Phil expressed his belief that the Bible dictates the use of a rod over a hand to punish children. He stated that children only a few months old are “worthy” of the rod and that by “one and a half months,” a child is old enough to be spanked.

    In a criminal complaint Phil is quoted as saying “the scripture is never wrong” and “pain is a good way to teach children.”

    Eight Face Charges in Child Abuse Investigation - Dane County Press Releases

    Lots of links from this article to news sites and police pressers.

    Update: Lori Wick, Christian Author Involved in Child Abuse Probe

    PLease, please, please!!!!! Let the people that want to smack around a 1-1/2 month old do it in front of me!!! Please!!!
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Jan 13, 2011
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    How does a guy go to jail for words alone? Am I missing something? Don't like the guys perspective, but it he didn't lay a hand on anyone, I find it difficult to support him being jailed over suggestions.
     

    jLr

    Marksman
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    Jan 14, 2012
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    Southern Indiana
    I don't think the issue is whether it is right or wrong to hit a 1 month old child. Everyone with a little bit of common sense knows it is wrong. The issue is free speech....
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 12, 2012
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    The point at issue is that those who would deprive us of rights will pick the target least likely to inspire public sympathy and hold that person up as the 'justification' for truncating or effectively eliminating such rights as in this case free speech, or using a drug dealer who got away after an improper search as the justification to trash the Fourth Amendment.
     

    Double T

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    Aug 5, 2011
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    Huntington
    My wife and I have both smacked our children for screaming no at us in public.

    The sheeple stop stare and shake their heads. Obviously their parents didn't teach proper discipline.
     
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    The point at issue is that those who would deprive us of rights will pick the target least likely to inspire public sympathy and hold that person up as the 'justification' for truncating or effectively eliminating such rights as in this case free speech, or using a drug dealer who got away after an improper search as the justification to trash the Fourth Amendment.

    :+1:

    Very well said!
     

    Armed Citizen

    Sharpshooter
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    Jun 8, 2010
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    Indianapolis
    As a child my father did not "spare the rod" when it came to disciplining me or my sister. If we screwed up, he would tell us once and only once not to do that again, if we continued to screw up, misbehave, act out, or back talk, the belt was coming. And I will tell you this, I would NOT change how I was raised. It taught me that there are consequences for my actions. GOD rest my father's soul, there is not a day go by when I don't think about him. If he was here right now I would thank him. IMO that is a lot of the preblems with the youth of today. The first thing they want to scream is "CHILD ABUSE". If I ever told my dad that, lord save my soul because my A$$ belonged to my dad.
     

    rich8483

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    Sep 30, 2009
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    Crown Point - Lake County
    there has to be more to this.
    if he really is being jailed for 2 years for the message he was spewing, that is so wrong. no one is forced to follow him or do what he says. that is truly an attach on free speach and has nothing to do with his parenting ideas. (im not defending what hes saying, just that he can say it) however, if he is being jailed b/c he took part in it with his own kids or physically forced other parents to follow him... then i can see that as legitimate charges.

    that being said, child abuse and responsible discipline can sometimes be a fuzzy line but this i think clearly falls on the abuse side.

    on the flipside, i have a friend and his wife that pretty well wont discipline their child b/c it might hurt his feelings. thats no good either b/c its getting to the point where i cant even stand the presence of that little brat.
     

    IndyDave1776

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    there has to be more to this.
    if he really is being jailed for 2 years for the message he was spewing, that is so wrong. no one is forced to follow him or do what he says. that is truly an attach on free speach and has nothing to do with his parenting ideas. (im not defending what hes saying, just that he can say it) however, if he is being jailed b/c he took part in it with his own kids or physically forced other parents to follow him... then i can see that as legitimate charges.

    that being said, child abuse and responsible discipline can sometimes be a fuzzy line but this i think clearly falls on the abuse side.

    on the flipside, i have a friend and his wife that pretty well wont discipline their child b/c it might hurt his feelings. thats no good either b/c its getting to the point where i cant even stand the presence of that little brat.

    I understand your point, but giving the benefit of the doubt to folks who prove daily that their prime motive in getting out of bed in the morning is reducing, removing, and criminalizing the exercise of our rights is a very dangerous assumption to make.
     

    ATOMonkey

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    Jun 15, 2010
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    Plainfield
    It's for the children!!! ~ All you need to say to get just about anything done.

    Other things that will give you carte blanche authority.

    ~ It's for the troops!

    ~ They're on a fixed income!

    ~ I paid into the system!
     
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