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  1. #61
    Master ArmedProgrammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    If they didn't, that's their collective a$$e$
    Incorrect - it's OUR collective $$$....

    Just sayin...


    not an issue in this particular case since they appear to have a warrant, but when things go wrong and bad judgement is used, those $$ come from all of us.
    Remove Firefox and Thunderbird - do not support the fascists at Mozilla.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    So a warrant is always expected to bear fruits?
    At what percent should a warrant be successful? And if it's 100% why have a warrant at all?
    All though going on one article is silly,

    Seems 100 % percent wrong in this case.

    I would like to see the steaming pile of crap the warrant was based on.

    Are you telling me you have not seen warrants filed with totaly false info ?
    Read before you post to me: I never advocate for anyone to do ANYTHING illegal.

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  3. #63
    Expert spearheadersarge's Avatar
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    The ponit everyone is missing is there is no accountability if the action is wrong. Sure the family gets to sue and will be compensated at tax-payer expense, but the people in charge will skate. Why is there no mechanism that hold the cops and judiciary accountable for the failure? If the judge knew his nuts were on the line for a bad warrant and the SWAT team and cops could face criminal proceedings for assault and or breaking and entering they might ensure their info was correct and possibly use no knock raids a little less!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by spearheadersarge View Post
    The ponit everyone is missing is there is no accountability if the action is wrong. Sure the family gets to sue and will be compensated at tax-payer expense, but the people in charge will skate. Why is there no mechanism that hold the cops and judiciary accountable for the failure? If the judge knew his nuts were on the line for a bad warrant and the SWAT team and cops could face criminal proceedings for assault and or breaking and entering they might ensure their info was correct and possibly use no knock raids a little less!
    You hit the nail on the head if a judge signs a B.S. warrant they should be removed from the bench but unfortunately that's not the case. Cops want to play soldiers and counter terror ops and no-knock warrants give them that opportunity, how many times have they had bad intel or even the wrong address but they still continue to use them. I would hate to see the outcome of them getting the wrong address of someone that fights back in the middle of the night thinking someone is breaking in.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by spearheadersarge View Post
    The ponit everyone is missing is there is no accountability if the action is wrong. Sure the family gets to sue and will be compensated at tax-payer expense, but the people in charge will skate. Why is there no mechanism that hold the cops and judiciary accountable for the failure? If the judge knew his nuts were on the line for a bad warrant and the SWAT team and cops could face criminal proceedings for assault and or breaking and entering they might ensure their info was correct and possibly use no knock raids a little less!
    "Who" do you hold accountable? The officers making entry, the officers gaining intel for the warrant, or the judge that signs it?
    Rest to our Brave, our Honorable, our Fallen

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    You hit the nail on the head if a judge signs a B.S. warrant they should be removed from the bench but unfortunately that's not the case. Cops want to play soldiers and counter terror ops and no-knock warrants give them that opportunity, how many times have they had bad intel or even the wrong address but they still continue to use them. I would hate to see the outcome of them getting the wrong address of someone that fights back in the middle of the night thinking someone is breaking in.
    Actually, more soldiers want to play cop.
    Rest to our Brave, our Honorable, our Fallen

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    "Who" do you hold accountable? The officers making entry, the officers gaining intel for the warrant, or the judge that signs it?
    We can start with judges when they sign affidavits that are obviously completely scripted without actually making the effort to be nothing more than a robo-signer. Moving on we can hold the intel team responsible for their lack of intel. When the entry team decides not to use any of their own judgement of the situation and continues to allow a bad situation to continue, or when they get the wrong house completely we should probably also hold them accountable.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutnupe14 View Post
    Actually, more soldiers want to play cop.
    I prefer soldiers wanting to play cops more so than cops wanting to play soldiers.

  9. #69
    Marksman Archaic_Entity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    We can start with judges when they sign affidavits that are obviously completely scripted without actually making the effort to be nothing more than a robo-signer. Moving on we can hold the intel team responsible for their lack of intel. When the entry team decides not to use any of their own judgement of the situation and continues to allow a bad situation to continue, or when they get the wrong house completely we should probably also hold them accountable.
    Your request makes no feasible sense. This is the government we're talking about here. They're a lumbering machine with 1000 moving parts. Let's isolate this particular incident for an example, and bear in mind I'm no officer, so I may not even grasp at all the straws in play.

    You have the officers that are building the case that this house is a meth lab. Their job is to figure out if they think it's incredibly likely this place is making a drug. They do their job. It's not just one man. It's a unit. They develop a case that seems solid enough to send to a judge for a warrant. You're telling me that this judge should do what? Hide out in a van for a few nights to confirm the suspicions? Or does it make more sense for him to sign the warrant based on his officers' evidence they provided?

    The decision to use a SWAT team was based on a detailed checklist the department uses when serving warrants.

    Investigators consider dozens of items such as residents' past criminal convictions, other criminal history, mental illness and previous interactions with law enforcement.

    Each item is assigned a point value and if the total exceeds a certain threshold, SWAT is requested. Then a commander approves or rejects the request.

    In Tuesday's raid, the points exceeded the threshold and investigators called in SWAT.
    Clearly there are some indicators here that point to the possibility that these people are dangerous. I obviously don't know the checklist, but I'm sure it requires more than one checkmark. So it's decided to send a group of officers (SWAT) that likely have no prior connections to this case. One officer makes a mistake with his flash bang pole, and an unfortunate incident occurred. They raided the house and came back ... maybe negative?

    No arrests were made during the raid and no charges have been filed, although a police spokesman said afterward that some evidence was recovered during the search. St. John declined to release specifics of the drug case, citing the active investigation, but did say that "activity was significant enough where our drug unit requested a search warrant."
    So, probably not a meth lab there. But maybe enough materials to make a guess that they have a meth lab somewhere? Who knows?

    Furthermore, like Kutnupe asked, "Who do you decide to sue?"

    The guys who investigated the house. The judge that did his job, and relied on the intel of the guys who investigated the house. Or the officers who performed the raid, likely with briefing on the situation, and no prior experience with this particular case? With evidence recovered according to their spokesperson.

    I have a tough time believing the huge town of Missoula, Montana is full of everyone from the top down being corrupt.
    From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put. - Winston Churchill

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  10. #70
    Master level.eleven's Avatar
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    Why do these happen everyday?

    Another Isolated Incident | The Agitator

    Does anyone have any information on the amount of research that is done before these raids on citizen's homes?

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