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  1. #51
    Plinker bart2278's Avatar
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    Isn't any order that contradicts the Constitution an unlawful order? I was in the Infantry four years, and I can say that I have more loyalty to the people of the United States and the Constitution then I do the Army. I do not see how one can go against the Constitution. It was made to protect us from our government and promote Liberty. Who would willingly go against that idea just to play it "safe" on whether or not you would be disobeying an order. Am I just rambling here?

  2. #52
    Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by bart2278 View Post
    Isn't any order that contradicts the Constitution an unlawful order? Who would willingly go against that idea just to play it "safe" on whether or not you would be disobeying an order.
    Did the Katrina gun confiscation go against the Constitution?

  3. #53
    Plinker bart2278's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Did the Katrina gun confiscation go against the Constitution?
    yes

  4. #54
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Did the Katrina gun confiscation go against the Constitution?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo
    In Soviet Amerika, the Law violates YOU

  5. #55
    Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by bart2278 View Post
    yes
    There's your answer.

  6. #56
    Grandmaster IndyDave1776's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bart2278 View Post
    Isn't any order that contradicts the Constitution an unlawful order? I was in the Infantry four years, and I can say that I have more loyalty to the people of the United States and the Constitution then I do the Army. I do not see how one can go against the Constitution. It was made to protect us from our government and promote Liberty. Who would willingly go against that idea just to play it "safe" on whether or not you would be disobeying an order. Am I just rambling here?
    I would suggest that you pause and consider those around you in the military. There are plenty of people there for the right reasons to do the right things. There are plenty of people there who haven't really stopped to think about things like this and could be swept in the wrong direction by a strong or persuasive commanding officer, and there are plenty of people in the military who would pimp out their own mothers to climb the ladder. If only 20% would go the wrong way for one reason or other we would have a major problem.
    Government and pedophiles both practice buggering those powerless to defend themselves.

  7. #57
    Shooter
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  8. #58
    Expert thebishopp's Avatar
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    Very interesting. Thanks for the post. I, and probably a lot others, never even heard this gone pushed through.

    "Congress changed the Insurrection Act to list natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident" as conditions under which the president can deploy U.S. armed forces and federalize state Guard troops if he determines that "authorities of the state or possession are incapable of maintaining public order."
    "You see, none of us chose our end really. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son. But remember that, even when those who move you be kings or men of power, your soul is in your keeping alone. When you stand before God you cannot say "but I was told by others to do thus" or that "virtue was not convinient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that."

    "Live with Honor, and let not your death be born by the pallbearers of, disgrace, cruelty, weakness and fear."

  9. #59
    Plinker AF Gunner's Avatar
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    Let me start by saying I'm a local Senior enlisted traditional guardsman in the Air Guard. I spent several years active in another branch before moving over to the guard.

    Ripper - everything you say about the Guard / Reserve and Active Duty is BS. Yes, allot join for college money and enlistment bonuses, but lets not forget AD get similar incentives. And it also sounds like you are on your first enlistment. My newer Airman who are on their first enlistment joined, like you, knowing our increased deployment tempo and can expect 2-3 deployments in their first 6 year enlistment. They joined knowing they WILL deploy, just like you. But unlike you, they do not have a steady paycheck of if they do, they / We put it in jeopardy every time we get activated. My guys don't do this for a job, it's a something they love to do. So I suggest next time someone from the guard or reserves replaces you in rotation or provides security while moving in and out of your deployed location, you say thank you for your service and spend your time *****ing about someone else.

    History is a ***** - Damn the proof the military will never be used against it's own citizens.

    I bring this up with my Airman a few times a year, because I'm one of those oath keeper types. This type of discussion should be mandatory training over all the other BS we get fed. In case you did know know the Army is in charge in cases of martial law. They get to be the HMFIC while all other will fall under them. The Army is the one with all of the instructions on how to set up and run the US detention centers.

    It will be the guard and reserve that will be the ones told to do the nasty things that are being talked about here, at least at first. I personally think there will be a split, some will willingly do it. Thinking they are doing something good for their country. Some will begrudging do it, knowing it's not right. Or maybe it's in the gray for them and they don't want to get in trouble like my next group. Then their are the "no way in hell" group. I'm sure most of you hope no majority would be in that group, I do too. But I don't have that much confidence. As soon as they start taking their own people into custody for disobeying an order, lawful or not, people will either quickly step in line or follow their bothers off to confinement. Maybe we would get our day in court, but I would not count on it and if we don't I doubt it will be just.

    So if we say no and stand up for what is right, I hope there will be a huge outcry from the rest of citizenship. If not, those that did are going to be truly ****ED along with the rest of the US. With the patriot ACT, NDAA 2012, the link above, and all the other **** that gets signed while the US watches football, reality TV, and news about some General's whore.

    NDAA made Posse Comitatus dead and unless every enlisted ,officer, law enforcement person in the nation starts to stand up we are in trouble.

    So Back to the "do what's right." The Guard is a much older group of people that active Duty. That gives us a little more chance on some common sense. But if congress and the US passes and signs into law a UN gun ban and with laws changing everyday on what is okay or not, the younger guys are going to have no idea what to do. Hell most of the older guys won't know what to do. I would not know rely on the Soldiers and Sailors to put them selves out there in harms way against their own government to protect the public that is to busy to care. Hell more than half of them fall into the category too. everyone is too busy with life to care anymore. "I have kids, jobs, family, to take care of. I don't have time to pay attention to politics or vote." I here it all the time from people.

    In closing I'm sure this has been posted here before, but its good... really good and it wasn't even done by a US citizen. Take 6 min to watch it.

    http://youtu.be/FXlMFWmotSU

  10. #60
    Plinker AF Gunner's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=ThrottleJockey;3521062]Governors lose in power struggle over National Guard
    Governors lose in power struggle over National Guard Tenth Amendment Center
    http://www.csg.org/knowledgecenter/d...Resolution.pdf
    The Volokh Conspiracy - Bush v. Federalism (Again) - Expanding Presidential Power Over the National Guard:

    In case you didn't want to clink on the link above this is the a few paragraphs.

    The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 forbids U.S. troops from being deployed on American soil for law enforcement. The one exception is provided by the Insurrection Act of 1807, which lets the president use the military only for the purpose of putting down rebellions or enforcing constitutional rights if state authorities fail to do so. Under that law, the president can declare an insurrection and call in the armed forces. The act has been invoked only a handful of times in the past 50 years, including in 1957 to desegregate schools and in 1992 during riots in south central Los Angeles after the acquittal of police accused of beating Rodney King.

    Congress changed the Insurrection Act to list "natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident" as conditions under which the president can deploy U.S. armed forces and federalize state Guard troops if he determines that "authorities of the state or possession are incapable of maintaining public order."

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