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  1. #21
    Grandfather Birds Away's Avatar
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    Just so you know, I went to the range last night. No gun problems here.

  2. #22
    Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birds Away View Post
    Just so you know, I went to the range last night. No gun problems here.
    And, I gather, no need for a check up from the neck up either?

  3. #23
    Grandmaster 88GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
    We need to get Guy or Kirk in on this. The best I understand it is that the courts have long had the power to supervise those who are mentally ill. It may be pre-emptive, in your view, but there should be clear evidence of potential threat to society.

    The abuse part of this would happen if it is too easy. After all 60% of felons are emotionally ill. And another 20% are mentally ill. Over 70% have been in foster care (early childhood abuse).

    The question is whether punish all of society via a gun ban or to limit the rights of the few (mentally ill)?
    This is the part I have a problem with. Without having actually done someone harmful, how do you or anyone else know what a person is likely to do. You can't go with the standard of what he's capable of doing or has the potential to do, because we should all be locked up. This is about a likelihood of doing something. And short of a history of harmful behavior, I don't see how you can argue that there's any way to determine which person is going to be a threat and which isn't. And I am NOT okay with locking people up just because.

    You last statement is a false dichotomy. It isn't just one or the other. We could be adults and realize that bad things happen when we let people be free (incidentally, bad things happen when we lock some of them up too, proving your solution isn't going to fix anything). You sound just like a squishy lib who wants to prevent every form of harm or violence known to man. You can't.
    Come to the river.

  4. #24
    Grandfather Birds Away's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
    And, I gather, no need for a check up from the neck up either?
    That's subjective. There are probably a few who would think it warranted based simply by the fact that I own guns and go to the range regularly.

  5. #25
    Grandmaster 88GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birds Away View Post
    That's subjective. There are probably a few who would think it warranted based simply by the fact that I own guns and go to the range regularly.
    I've been called a lot of things on INGO that would make someone believe I was unfit for parenting/gun-owning/other things if the claims were taken at face value.

    I know where Trooper is coming from, but his solution is no better in terms of protecting an individual's rights than all of the firearm restrictions that come out of these things.
    Come to the river.

  6. #26
    Master findingZzero's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Trooper;4659930]Greg Garrison's program this morning ****snip****QUOTE]

    You lost me at Greg Garrison. He doesn't have discussions so much as rants.

    Do we have a gun problem or a mental health problem?

    Both. I have to sign for a case of wine, but they'll leave 500 rnds of ammo on my porch. Period. End of discussion!
    " IYAM WHAT IYAM"

  7. #27
    Grandmaster Indy_Guy_77's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=findingZzero;4661007]
    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper View Post
    Greg Garrison's program this morning ****snip****QUOTE]

    You lost me at Greg Garrison. He doesn't have discussions so much as rants.

    Do we have a gun problem or a mental health problem?

    Both. I have to sign for a case of wine, but they'll leave 500 rnds of ammo on my porch. Period. End of discussion!
    I agree that they should leave the wine signature-free, too.

    But all in all - that's at the discretion of the sender and not necessarily the content of the delivery.

    also - if "we" leave things to the courts/physicians - how long until we're ALL in the "unfit" category?

    Kind of like wanting to kill off all the poor people to help alleviate our national debt issues. How long until we're all considered "poor"?

    -J-

  8. #28
    Master ViperJock's Avatar
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    What do you mean by "we?"
    Never stop burning tin.

  9. #29
    Grandfather Birds Away's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Indy_Guy_77;4661136]
    Quote Originally Posted by findingZzero View Post

    I agree that they should leave the wine signature-free, too.

    But all in all - that's at the discretion of the sender and not necessarily the content of the delivery.

    also - if "we" leave things to the courts/physicians - how long until we're ALL in the "unfit" category?

    Kind of like wanting to kill off all the poor people to help alleviate our national debt issues. How long until we're all considered "poor"?

    -J-
    I think Obamacare is supposed to take care of that.

  10. #30
    Grandmaster Expat's Avatar

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    I agree we need to be careful as totalitarian governments in the past have used the mental health system to punish and imprison its enemies. I would say though that if you have ever been around someone that is in a psychotic episode you would not want that person having access to firearms.

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