Deja Vu all over again.

[Liberty Sanders]

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/02/20/not-rogue-clinic-carmel-addiction-docs-sue-city/98010380/

It seems that the police department here in the People's Republic of Carmel is once again putting their professionalism on display. Apparently they're no better at framing innocent doctors than they are innocent gun owners.

I'll be contacting the attorney of these victimized doctors to see if they can use testimony concerning my personal experience with Carmel's penchant for false arrest, malicious prosecution, corrupt prosecutors and perjured testimony.

 

[printcraft]

Does the doctor in question have an INGO account?

I've heard tales of those being used in open court.......

 

[HoughMade]

Does the doctor in question have an INGO account?

I've heard tales of those being used in open court.......

 

[ATM]

The State considers those who would attempt private solutions to problems as competitors and enemy sympathizers according to their war.

 

[BobDaniels]

They must not have donated to the "Jim the Great, Fund" in pay to play Carmel.....

 

[hoosierdoc]

At time of arrest, when litigation commences: "He is he Pablo Escobar of suboxone"

now when you are about to be sued into oblivion: "we don't comment on pending litigation"



so... Let's say some of these narcotic addicted people who lost their Suboxone and got back on heroin and died. Is there a civil case by their families against the jerks who shut down this clinic?

 

[T.Lex]

Hopefully the DEA will indemnify Carmel for getting involved in this. I don't think this was something CPD came up with.

Also, as I recall, it pretty much scuttled Andrew Dollard's chance at getting elected to anything.

ETA:

so... Let's say some of these narcotic addicted people who lost their Suboxone and got back on heroin and died. Is there a civil case by their families against the jerks who shut down this clinic?

So that's interesting. I know an attorney who was suing the doctor for malpractice, based on prescribing practices inconsistent with the professional standard. Lots of litigation to go around.

 

[HoughMade]

All I'll say is this....

About 10 or 12 years ago, such things as pain management and addiction medicine were supposed to be the new fertile ground for med mal plaintiffs' attorneys. That has not turned out to be the case. From a med mal perspective, and moreso in a criminal case, these cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute. First of all, in med mal, the plaintiffs are not "model plaintiffs". In cases where there is some alleged harm from the medication, in about 9.5 out of 10 cases, even if the doc was prescribing heavily, the plaintiff was out drug seeking elsewhere...oops. Tough to get a medical review panel, much less a jury to break bad on a doc when the patient is out scoring their own pain meds in other places.

In the addiction medicine realm, the patients sign extensive agreements with the docs (as they do at pain management clinics) where they pledge to not go alsewhere, not loiter at the premises, use the meds properly, etc. Again, you are dealing with patients who are problematic to begin with. THEY ARE DRUG ADDICTS and make horrible witnesses.

Add to those issues the fact that there is a great deal of debate in the pain management field (and addiction medicine) about just what, exactly, is proper care. It is far from a decided science.

If you can't get a jury to decide - "more likely than not" - good luck with "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Now, granted, there have been successful prosecutions for "pill mill" docs, but they are fairly rare and usually very extreme.

These issues are best dealt with through medical licensing, in my personal opinion.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

It's urban planning the Chicago way.

Specious prosecutions in order to drive out unwanted but legal businesses. I've seen it before; we'll see it again.

 

[Spear Dane]

Wow. I wish those people many fat zeroes in their settlements. Doom on Carmel. Maybe this will learn em.

 

[hoosierdoc]

It such a catch 22 when dealing with drug abusers. The standard line is "treatment, not jail". Then you trash the treating doctors for treating too many of them

very few docs will do suboxone because of all the administrative stuff involved and the craziness of the patients. It's absurd if there's really a cap of 100 per doc.

their prices they set were actually very reasonable. My problem with drugs to treat drugs is you'll see people on them for YEARS. Methadone is not an end point, it's a temporizer while you deal with the mental health side of addiction. Most people unfortunately seem to just stay on suboxone or methodone while they can get it and then relapse. I very rarely see anyone on a tapering dose.

 

[Double T]

All these things are doing is making it harder to get people medication(s) who actually need it. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[T.Lex]

Wow. I wish those people many fat zeroes in their settlements. Doom on Carmel. Maybe this will learn em.

It won't.

 

[Leadeye]

Does carmel alone pay in this case or is the bill spread around to state and federal?

 

[T.Lex]

Does carmel alone pay in this case or is the bill spread around to state and federal?

Since it was most likely a DEA investigation, ideally they'd pay for it.

The reality is that each agency will probably have to foot their own bill (or insurance will, at least). With the drug task force, I think that means each of those agencies, too. I think there's an agreement that lays out the indemnities.