Conservative and a Liberal (both love guns)

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Bronsonbull

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Feb 20, 2008
    890
    16
    just north of Indy
    Here's a thread from the Long Guns forum that I am moving because it started to get political.

    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/long_guns/64222-fbi_buys_20mm_rifles.html

    After getting pretty heated last night because I loathe Nancy Pelosi and another member was defending her (and he is a liberal), I feel I may have been a bit out of line in my posts.

    At the end of the day, he may support and share views with liberals and Nancy Pelosi (which I strongly disagree with and will not try to understand why), he does claim to enjoy guns.

    And for that I we can see eye to eye. Aren't guns great? They are such an equalizer :)
     

    shooter521

    Certified Glock Nut
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    May 13, 2008
    19,185
    48
    Indianapolis, IN US
    My brother is a card-carrying East Coast liberal, but owns a couple guns, likes to shoot (though he doesn't do it much anymore, except when he comes back here to visit), and has a respectable position on the RKBA.

    My wife was a 2-time Clinton voter when we got together, and while she has drifted measurably toward the center on some key issues, she is still left of center on a lot of other stuff (and left of me on just about EVERYTHING). She also owns guns, likes to shoot, has taken classes and shot matches with me, and has a respectable position on the RKBA.

    I'm sure INGO has members from all over the political spectrum, though some may be reluctant to openly proclaim their views for any number of (legitimate) reasons, not the least of which is NUNYA. That doesn't mean we can't focus on celebrating the things we do have in common. :ingo:
     

    Eddie

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 28, 2009
    3,730
    38
    North of Terre Haute
    Polarizing

    Conservative and Liberal can be very polarizing terms. A lot of people fall somewhere in between the two extremes or they have a different view from the party line on one or more major issues. Where I live, most of the political offices are held by Democrats, but if you listen to what they have to say on some of the issues, a lot of their opinions would be conidered conservative. I try to listen to what people say on the individual issues rather than worrying about how to label them.
     

    dross

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 27, 2009
    8,699
    48
    Monument, CO
    "Conservative" and "liberal" are not very informative terms. My views are libertarian, which means I'm more liberal than most liberals on some issues, and more conservative than most conservatives on others. What's interesting is that my "conservative" friends consider me mostly conservative, even though my views on gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, capital punishment, religion in school, and many other issues are hardly conservative, but my "liberal" friends consider me ultra-conservative, just because I believe in the war, smaller government, and lower taxes. "Liberal" is just another word for "socialist" which I think is much, much more descriptive of the modern liberal. It also explains why they label me as a conservative. It reveals the beliefs they hold most dear, not the beliefs they claim to value the most.

    There are two kinds of socialists (liberals). One kind is made of committed socialists who actually understand what they are fighting for. This kind is very rare, except in politics (consider the Obama administration). The other kind, most of the voters, are just politically ignorant. They understand very little about politics, but they watch the news and/or read the paper so they think they're informed, though their understanding typically is a mile wide and an inch deep. They think the Pelosi's of the world are like them, so they give them a pass on their craziness, and they don't search deep enough to get at the nature of their leaders.

    BTW, the FactCheck website has a very pronounced left bias, just as mediaresearch is biased to the right.
     

    shibumiseeker

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    49   0   0
    Nov 11, 2009
    10,708
    113
    near Bedford on a whole lot of land.
    "Conservative" and "liberal" are not very informative terms. My views are libertarian, which means I'm more liberal than most liberals on some issues, and more conservative than most conservatives on others. What's interesting is that my "conservative" friends consider me mostly conservative, even though my views on gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, capital punishment, religion in school, and many other issues are hardly conservative, but my "liberal" friends consider me ultra-conservative, just because I believe in the war, smaller government, and lower taxes. ".

    Similar here. It's annoying to no end that just because I am a gun nut means that many conservative friends think that I'm going to agree with every idiotic notion they have. And just because I think the government should get out of the business of legislating morality, many liberal friends I have think that I should believe that guns are evil and should be outlawed.

    Life is more complicated than that and I have much more respect for people who come by their views, even when I disagree, by careful thought and consideration. People who are merely spouting the latest soundbite from a pundit or demagogue tell me that they prefer to let someone else do their thinking.

    I wish that folks on tech groups could stick to guns and stay away from other aspects of politics. There's a lot of us out there who like guns who don't think that Rush or Beck are minor deities, or that Obama has 666 tattooed to his forehead.
     

    shooter521

    Certified Glock Nut
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    May 13, 2008
    19,185
    48
    Indianapolis, IN US
    I wish that folks on tech groups could stick to guns and stay away from other aspects of politics. There's a lot of us out there who like guns who don't think that Rush or Beck are minor deities, or that Obama has 666 tattooed to his forehead.

    Thankfully, INGO (which isn't a "tech group" per se) has a Politics subforum where political discussion can take place, without too much spillover into the gun-related subforums. Makes it fairly easy to stay out of the feeding frenzy if you want. Heck, if I didn't have to moderate, I'd probably never go in there, myself!
     

    Bronsonbull

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Feb 20, 2008
    890
    16
    just north of Indy
    Agreed. I was all fired up last night because I can't stand Pelosi and her views. I think she is the perfect example of what is wrong with Washington politicians (Republican/Democrat/Black or White). With that said, I was probably jumping to conclusions with the member that was defending/supporting her.

    Growing up my mom was a proud Democrat and my dad was a very conservative Republican (and still is, Glenn Beck is his hero). They learned to agree and disagree and got along fine.

    I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat, although in general my views align to the right. In fact, I'm so turned off by politicians and government these days it keeps me up at night. I'm not so sure that you can trust any of them. With that said, I think my views align with the values and ideals that our founding fathers founded this great nation upon. I feel that those values and ideals are getting trampled on more and more. I guess you could say I'm a "Constitutionalist" if there is such a thing.

    I'm going to stick to guns on this forum and stay out of the political sub-forum from now on :) Sorry mods for the other thread hi-jack. Won't happen again (at least involving a discussion around Nancy Pelosi).
     

    scheesman

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Nov 22, 2009
    332
    16
    Indy
    As the guilty party involved in the above thread, I want to jump in. I wasn't defending Pelosi. I was just pointing out that the post you made regarding her 757 was wrong. I would do the same thing if something was said about Bush that was wrong (and I have in the past). I don't mind if someone doesn't agree with me, but I do want to ensure that those disagreements are based on fact, and not a "friend of a friend of a friend says it's true" mentality.

    That being said, I do tend to lean liberal. But it's an odd combination. I make a very good living. I own two businesses. I believe that if war is necessary, light it up. I believe that the CIA should be able to run any black ops necessary to protect this country. I also believe that gun control is usually wrong. I drive a "gas guzzler". That should lean me towards Republican. But I also believe that we should help those that can't help themselves (can't, not won't). I believe that a woman has the right to choose. I believe that as a country we should all work together instead of having a "capitalist" attitude about everything in life. That tends to lean me Democrat. And this year, it was an easy choice for me.

    All that being said, being Democrat or Republican doesn't define who I am! I am me, and you are you. And if you let the terms Democrat or Republican define who you are, the Far left and right have won.
     

    hoosiertriangle

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 17, 2008
    356
    16
    Avon, IN
    I wrote this in another thread (link) sometime ago, and its applicable here as well.

    I've been meaning to post this for awhile, but haven't found a good topic. This thread is as good as any. In my Jurisprudence (Philosophy of Law) class semester, we spent considerable time discussing the first principles which influence political thought today. Here is the short version.

    Modern politics in the US is centered around two parties, Republicans and Democrats. The Republicans generally represent "Conservative" thought and Democrats representing "Liberal" thought. The problem comes in defining what Conservative and Liberal mean.

    Traditional Conservative thinking was premised on the concept of God and and the Natural Law. Natural law flowed from God and God created and ordered universe with an objective moral order which mirrored the natural physical order. Think about the writings of C.S. Lewis and Thomas Aquinas.

    Traditional conservative thought when it comes to society is that society is constantly degrading and moving away from the objective moral order of the world. The government's role in the equation is to setup laws which create incentives to adhere to the objective moral order thereby strengthening society and stopping the moral decay.

    Classic liberal thinking is centered on the inherent goodness of man. Inherently good man is corrupted by society and particularly inequality among men. Man, when left primitive, is most happy. Therefore classic liberal thinking is the freeing of man to be himself free from societal interference and inequality from property. (Think about Rouseeau's writings.) Classic liberal thinking was the foundation of modern liberal thinking and for Marxist concepts.

    Rousseau articulated that man could be most happy in two organization schemes. First was a utopian society where everyone is happy, everyone is equal, and every one is free to do what most pleases them. No government exists in this end state. Before the utopian society, was a leviathanic society which was a massive governmental entitty (think 1984) that controls everything to ensure equality and happiness.

    Modern Liberal thought centered around a the core believe that within each person was an inherently good, unique, and special person. The purpose of society was to give expansive personal rights to people to find and express their "true person." Think about the writings of Emerson and Thoreau.

    Modern Liberal thinking focuses on creating a government which protects each person's ability to find their true self. No objective moral order exists, only each person's experiences. Modern liberal thinking is heavily influenced by utilitarianism, or the maximization of personal pleasure and minimization of personal pain. What is collectively right is based on what maximizes personal pleasure through finding the genuine self. As a side note, modern liberals heavily relied on the importance of personal responsibility. You have the ability to do anything you need to find your true self, but if you do things which have negative consequences you had to accept the those consequences. Use your rights to the point of not burdening another.

    Post-modern liberal thinking (today) has retained the concept of finding the true self at nearly any cost while adding in a strong does of behavioral psychology. Behavioral psychology basically states that people do things because of their environment, they were forced to do something. This influence is heavily seen in our criminal system and all forms of government today. Behavioral psychology has destroyed the concept of personal responsibility and replaced it with collective responsibility found through the environment.

    In addition, to behavioralism, the post-modern liberals are heavily influenced by egalitarianism (equality). Egalitarianism would assert in some ways that un-happiness is the result of inequality. To maximize happiness, in-equality in all forms (particularly) property and wealth should be eliminated. Consequently, post-modern liberal thinking focuses on engineering the environment (society) to minimze inequiality and maximize happiness. The best way to enact such sweeping control is through expansive invaisive government.

    Because I found the insight of liberal thinking so interesting, i focused much of the class on examining the developments in liberal thinking and somewhat neglected conservative thought. At any rate, today's Democrats are lost betwen post-modern liberal thinkers (think Pelosi) and the modern liberal thinkers. Consequently, the classic liberal foundation has been re-blended with behavioral psychology to move faster toward the all powerful controlling government.

    Libertarian thinkings is in many ways, based most closely on the modern liberal thinkings. Expansive personal rights coupled with personal responsibility requiring minimal government intervention. The source of the personal rights is where libertarians split. Those influenced by conservative thought would say the rights come from nature, we inherently have them. Those influenced by liberal thought would say they come from societies need for them so we can be our true selves.

    I hope this doesn't confuse too badly as its ALOT of material condensed into a short essay. The point is that each party is lost in an identy crisis and few people really understand how it all fits together into cohesive thought. I want to be perfectly clear, I don't claim to be an expert. I just wanted to boil down some of what we learned to give insight on the philophy undergirding modern political thinking.
     

    bartonmd

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Oct 11, 2008
    317
    18
    Mooresville/Camby
    "Conservative" and "liberal" are not very informative terms. My views are libertarian, which means I'm more liberal than most liberals on some issues, and more conservative than most conservatives on others. What's interesting is that my "conservative" friends consider me mostly conservative, even though my views on gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, capital punishment, religion in school, and many other issues are hardly conservative, but my "liberal" friends consider me ultra-conservative, just because I believe in the war, smaller government, and lower taxes. "Liberal" is just another word for "socialist" which I think is much, much more descriptive of the modern liberal. It also explains why they label me as a conservative. It reveals the beliefs they hold most dear, not the beliefs they claim to value the most.

    There are two kinds of socialists (liberals). One kind is made of committed socialists who actually understand what they are fighting for. This kind is very rare, except in politics (consider the Obama administration). The other kind, most of the voters, are just politically ignorant. They understand very little about politics, but they watch the news and/or read the paper so they think they're informed, though their understanding typically is a mile wide and an inch deep. They think the Pelosi's of the world are like them, so they give them a pass on their craziness, and they don't search deep enough to get at the nature of their leaders.

    BTW, the FactCheck website has a very pronounced left bias, just as mediaresearch is biased to the right.


    THIS! EXACTLY THIS!

    Mike
     

    Bronsonbull

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    8   0   0
    Feb 20, 2008
    890
    16
    just north of Indy
    As the guilty party involved in the above thread, I want to jump in. I wasn't defending Pelosi. I was just pointing out that the post you made regarding her 757 was wrong. I would do the same thing if something was said about Bush that was wrong (and I have in the past). I don't mind if someone doesn't agree with me, but I do want to ensure that those disagreements are based on fact, and not a "friend of a friend of a friend says it's true" mentality.

    That being said, I do tend to lean liberal. But it's an odd combination. I make a very good living. I own two businesses. I believe that if war is necessary, light it up. I believe that the CIA should be able to run any black ops necessary to protect this country. I also believe that gun control is usually wrong. I drive a "gas guzzler". That should lean me towards Republican. But I also believe that we should help those that can't help themselves (can't, not won't). I believe that a woman has the right to choose. I believe that as a country we should all work together instead of having a "capitalist" attitude about everything in life. That tends to lean me Democrat. And this year, it was an easy choice for me.

    All that being said, being Democrat or Republican doesn't define who I am! I am me, and you are you. And if you let the terms Democrat or Republican define who you are, the Far left and right have won.

    I get it. I think I now understand you. Even though we don't agree on most of the social issues I can respect you for sticking up for what you believe. Being a Christian is what ultimately defines me. My faith just so happens to align me to the "Right" on most social issues. I also believe in capitalism because in general, Americans are lazy. The idea of everyone working together is a beautiful thing but what you'll end up with is a select few working hard and everyone else watching the work get done. I also believe that we should help those who cannot help themselves. However, the programs we have in place (and the ones that are coming in the near future) seem to have too many loopholes that allow freeloaders a chance to live off hard working American's tax dollars. That kinda stuff just really bugs me. I just feel like America is really "messed up" right now and I honestly haven't talked with too many people that would disagree (Republican or Democrat). I feel like most American's feel that they are owed something by the government and that the government should take care of their every need. That type of attitude will crush our great nation because we'll lose our motivation.

    Do you honestly have "hope" and an optimistic attitude about America's future right now? If so, tell me why. It may help me get out of my funk because I've been walking around pretty pissed lately. I've lost trust in my government for the first time ever (and I think we are about the same age). Also, does belief in a "Higher Being" play any part in "who you are"?

    The crazy thing is that we both love and enjoy guns and probably agree on a lot of other topics.
     

    Denny347

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,417
    149
    Napganistan
    As the guilty party involved in the above thread, I want to jump in. I wasn't defending Pelosi. I was just pointing out that the post you made regarding her 757 was wrong. I would do the same thing if something was said about Bush that was wrong (and I have in the past). I don't mind if someone doesn't agree with me, but I do want to ensure that those disagreements are based on fact, and not a "friend of a friend of a friend says it's true" mentality.

    That being said, I do tend to lean liberal. But it's an odd combination. I make a very good living. I own two businesses. I believe that if war is necessary, light it up. I believe that the CIA should be able to run any black ops necessary to protect this country. I also believe that gun control is usually wrong. I drive a "gas guzzler". That should lean me towards Republican. But I also believe that we should help those that can't help themselves (can't, not won't). I believe that a woman has the right to choose. I believe that as a country we should all work together instead of having a "capitalist" attitude about everything in life. That tends to lean me Democrat. And this year, it was an easy choice for me.

    All that being said, being Democrat or Republican doesn't define who I am! I am me, and you are you. And if you let the terms Democrat or Republican define who you are, the Far left and right have won.
    That sounds a lot like myself.
     

    Ramen

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 9, 2009
    488
    16
    I am a liberty loving, non-interventionist, who favors a purely free economy, little to no government, and I think the 9th Amendment is the most important.

    Am I conservative or liberal? :D
     
    Top Bottom