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  1. #1
    Que
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    Honest Political Question

    I'm working on becoming better informed on some of the current political issues. I don't pretend to be absolutely ignorant, but I also do not want to believe that my viewpoints are absolutely without fault, either. I am honestly looking for help and not attempting to start flames in any way. And, I don't plan to respond with any smart mouthed responses.

    Now, I have seen the Republicans provide tax cuts, but allow the nation's deficit to skyrocket. Also, I've seen Democrats tax people to the hilt, but drastically reduce the deficit. Now, without placing blame as to how we got where we currently are, is there a way to get out of this? Is there a way to get rid of our deficit; reinstitute Bush's tax breaks, which are ending; provide more tax cuts in the future and return some of the power to the states, which many say is currently in the hands of the federal government? All suggestions are welcomed as long as you can also discuss the ramifications.

    For instance, we simply stop all welfare programs. If so, the result will be the "states may have to..." Some suggestions may sound harsh, but may still be the right way to go. Your thoughts?

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  2. #2
    INGOer #483 Indy_Guy_77's Avatar
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    Solution: quit spending money like a drunken sailor.

    Then you won't have to raise taxes nor raise the deficit.

    And once you get spending under control, then you can cut taxes. Especially for those who pay the most.

    -J-

  3. #3
    Grandmaster BloodEclipse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zphique View Post
    I'm working on becoming better informed on some of the current political issues. I don't pretend to be absolutely ignorant, but I also do not want to believe that my viewpoints are absolutely without fault, either. I am honestly looking for help and not attempting to start flames in any way. And, I don't plan to respond with any smart mouthed responses.

    Now, I have seen the Republicans provide tax cuts, but allow the nation's deficit to skyrocket. Also, I've seen Democrats tax people to the hilt, but drastically reduce the deficit. Now, without placing blame as to how we got where we currently are, is there a way to get out of this? Is there a way to get rid of our deficit; reinstitute Bush's tax breaks, which are ending; provide more tax cuts in the future and return some of the power to the states, which many say is currently in the hands of the federal government? All suggestions are welcomed as long as you can also discuss the ramifications.

    For instance, we simply stop all welfare programs. If so, the result will be the "states may have to..." Some suggestions may sound harsh, but may still be the right way to go. Your thoughts?

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    Watch this. YouTube - Barack Obama on Taxes

  4. #4
    Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by zphique View Post
    Now, I have seen the Republicans provide tax cuts, but allow the nation's deficit to skyrocket. Also, I've seen Democrats tax people to the hilt, but drastically reduce the deficit. Now, without placing blame as to how we got where we currently are, is there a way to get out of this? Is there a way to get rid of our deficit; reinstitute Bush's tax breaks, which are ending; provide more tax cuts in the future and return some of the power to the states, which many say is currently in the hands of the federal government? All suggestions are welcomed as long as you can also discuss the ramifications.

    For instance, we simply stop all welfare programs. If so, the result will be the "states may have to..." Some suggestions may sound harsh, but may still be the right way to go. Your thoughts?
    Republicans have rarely provided tax cuts, and the Democrats have never taxed people "to the hilt." Both parties are big government, low Liberty.

    It is true that Clinton was far more Conservative than Bush. Far, far, far more conservative. Government was much smaller, and deficits were eradicated. Of course, the debt and its interest payment was still galloping away. As much as I hated Clinton, I wish he would have had Bush's two terms, and I'd trade him for Obama. Bush forever changed the character of this country and likely made inevitable our destruction.

    There is no way out.
    The country will eventually collapse. The debt is unsustainable. Interest payments on the debt will soon exceed the entire defense budget. We are like a low-wage worker who can only make minimum credit card payments on an outstanding balance of four times his salary. Our defense budget, alone, makes the entire budget unsustainable.

    At some point, we will have to repudiate the debt, and our currency will collapse. This is good. With no money, the federal government collapses, and we all get to be free for the first time in our lives. When it collapses, the states will rethink their associations with one another, and Montana may decide to join a union containing Idaho, the Dakotas, British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan. Southern states may decide to form the Less-than-Holy-not-at-all-Roman Empire.

    Of course, at the moment the dollar collapses, all personal savings not held in commodities are also wiped out, so plan accordingly.

    Your questions are discussed regularly at LewRockwell.com. Stop by. You'll get to see what Conservatism is really all about, and you'll be exposed to some of the strongest conservative writing to be found.

  5. #5
    Shooter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indy_Guy_77 View Post
    Solution: quit spending money like a drunken sailor.
    Absolutely. Real military expenditures are a trillion, per year.

    Defense Spending Is Much Greater than You Think | The Beacon

    Cut the military by 80%. Close bases, left and right. Bring the troops home from over 100 foreign bases. Let's stop the Liberal practice of a big military and meddling in the world's affairs.

  6. #6
    Expert Libertarian01's Avatar
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    Zphique,

    A very good question. As I will presume you have already guessed there can be no single answer to this question. Rather, it will take a multitude of measures that will improve our nations fiscal health.

    Let's start w/ a simple one: Cut the tax on corporations to about 10% to 15%. Right now corporate profits are taxed up to 35%. By cutting this tax it will give companies an incentive to grow here and to build here. This will stimulate all other areas of the economy by reducing unemployment and creating jobs. Workers can then be moved from unemployment to being taxed and adding to our revenue stream.

    #2) Get the federal govt on the track of not spending more money than we bring in. I would ask for five (5) years. This would give everyone a chance to adjust to the concept of tightening the belt.

    #3) Phase out the sale of Treasury Bonds. These are debts that we must pay on in future years. It would be relatively easy to cut their sale by 5% per year (from the currant year) so that in 20 years we are selling zero (0) debt instruments. Then, w/ 30 year bonds we would be totally debt free in this area in 50 years. Not right around the corner but doable in our childrens lifetime.

    #4) Completely privatize Social Security. This would help many poorer families and minorities break the cycle of poverty. Right now an employee could work their entire life, retire, and two (2) monthes later die. Benefits are marginal. As blacks and other minorities have shorter live expectancies this affects them more. If on the other hand they owned their savings this would allow hundreds of thousands of dollars to be inherited by survivors, giving them opportunities at higher education. Would everyone do this? Of course not. But there would be a percentage who would and this would help transition some families from marginal living to a middle and/or upper middle class lifestyle.

    #5) Simplify the tax code - FOR REAL! I don't care if you go w/ a flat tax, Fair Tax, or whatever else is available. The simpler the code the easier it will be to collect and not allow for payoffs politically. This would give us a better ability to collect everyone's fair amount and keep people from taking advantage of loopholes or dodging their debt load.

    #6) Education, education, education! Start informing people what our debt is and why it is bad! Try to speak at local schools to young people. This is the one area I am a communist! The better informed the public at all levels the better decisions we will be able to make.

    #7) Initiate some significant free market reforms into the health care system. Our health care costs have been skyrocketing and President Obama was right to address this. He did not, however, do a damn thing to address costs! Do you think we would be complaining if an MRI was $250? Or a hip replacement was $3000? What about a broken bone for $1500? I don't think so! The United States has the best health care in the world, the problem with it is cost. It is too expensive to access health care. Chronic diseases would still cause a problem but would be more manageable with some free market reforms. By the way, these could be done on top of the current Federal health care bill. Or EVEN by the State of Indiana!

    #8) Initiate massive cuts in military spending. We don't need hundreds of bases all over the world! They are nice and make things easy, but are unnecessary to maintain over decades of time. Also, start giving congress grief for not putting a choke hold on the executive branch! They declare war on everything with no way to win. I think we still have a war on obesity! How do we win that? What do we need? 500 fat people to march on Washington to discuss terms of surrender? What about our war on poverty? Could a poor person go to Washington and say, "I've got a job now and am doing well, thank you. I wish to surrender and discuss terms. You've won. I'm not poor anymore."
    Sorry, minor rant there...

    #9) When we run a surplus we could always discuss early payoffs with large debt holders. Say we owe Great Britain $100 Billion in treasury bonds, on which we will bay $100 Billion in interest payments over the next 30 years. Well, if we come up with an extra $10 Billion we could offer them $10 Billion today for them to agree to wipe $15 or $20 Billion in current debt. You wouldn't want to do this with deficit spending, but with excess revenue.

    #10) Start electing people who want to deal with the problem and won't be part OF the problem.

    Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. I'm certain others will come up with fine ideas as well. It is not the ideas that matter, but getting elected officials to act on them that really matters.

    Regards,

    Doug
    Last edited by Libertarian01; 04-20-2010 at 10:47. Reason: clarification
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  7. #7
    Grandmaster Expat's Avatar

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    Can we get over the "Clinton was conservative" myth? He didn't start out that way. He only turned conservative when he got Newt and John Kasich forced upon him by the mid-term election. Does anyone really think he would have become a conservative if he had the current Congress.

  8. #8
    Sharpshooter tuoder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zphique View Post
    I'm working on becoming better informed on some of the current political issues. I don't pretend to be absolutely ignorant, but I also do not want to believe that my viewpoints are absolutely without fault, either. I am honestly looking for help and not attempting to start flames in any way. And, I don't plan to respond with any smart mouthed responses.

    Now, I have seen the Republicans provide tax cuts, but allow the nation's deficit to skyrocket. Also, I've seen Democrats tax people to the hilt, but drastically reduce the deficit. Now, without placing blame as to how we got where we currently are, is there a way to get out of this? Is there a way to get rid of our deficit; reinstitute Bush's tax breaks, which are ending; provide more tax cuts in the future and return some of the power to the states, which many say is currently in the hands of the federal government? All suggestions are welcomed as long as you can also discuss the ramifications.

    For instance, we simply stop all welfare programs. If so, the result will be the "states may have to..." Some suggestions may sound harsh, but may still be the right way to go. Your thoughts?

    THIS IS A FREE ZONE
    Taxes will have to be raised and benefits will have to be cut. The pain needs to be spread as evenly as possible. It's no individual, or even party's fault alone. Democrats pass spending programs without taxing and Republicans pass tax cuts without spending cuts.

    Then when it's over, we need to pass a balanced budget amendment.

  9. #9
    Expert jsgolfman's Avatar
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    There are two reasons to tax, for revenue and for oppression.
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    A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years.

    Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

    Originally Posted by badwolf.usmc http://ingunowners.com/forums/images...s/viewpost.gif
    Be a man and stand up for what you believe, if not then sit down and STFU.

  10. #10
    Da PinkFather jedi's Avatar
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    Libertarian01 said it best.
    The problem is a complex one at best but not in terms of "who do we fix it" but in terms of this nation's "culture/thinking". America (it's people) for too long has gotten into the mentality of "spend, spend, spend", "me, me, me" and blame others. The Rs balme the Ds, the Ds blame the Rs, and neither really brings a solution to the table. Just look at this thread and you see the same occur. Some blasting the Rs, the Ds, clinton, etc when the core of the OP was to bring solutions.

    It's human nature and much easier to blast/blame some one else/group then to look at the problem and think of possible solutions.

    What really needs to happen in America is what I will call a "dave ramesy intervention" in which America really looks at it's finances and comes to terms that it is living beyond it's means. I'm not just talking gov. I'm talking individuals as well. We all know and perhaps are/were at one point in this category. Can't pay the rent this month, but will pay my cellphone or buy ammo for my range time, etc..

    The cold hard truth is (gov wise) we are going to have to cut services (to lower our monthly bill) and raise taxes (to pay off our debt) and we are not going to pay off our debt by next week. We have to think generations at least 2 (60 years) before we are debt-free and living right.

    Now metion this to any politician or voter and they will toss you over the river. America has no patients anymore and are not willing to sacrafice or take their time to do things. As such I do believe that smoking357 is correct. There is no way out. Not becuase we can't do it (financial wise) but becuase we don't have the mind-set (as a whole) to do it.

    A life changing event is what is going to have to occur to change the mind-set of this country. Just like it takes a life changing event to convert a ANTi-2A to a PRO-2A the same will be needed here. What the life changing event is I'm not sure. Not sure in terms of "shock value". As in Civil War 2, the us dollar collapse, being nuked by bin laden, etc...

    Gov. may be corrupt but gov is only the mirror represenation of it's people as a whole.

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