Consumerism

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  • Randall Flagg

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    Well for my first thread i thought i would throw out my writing on consumerism. Hope you guys enjoy and please feel free to leave any comments or insults that you wish.:D


    Consumerism

    What is it really? It dominates our whole life, but how much do we really know about consumerism? How did this behavior appear in one of the thriftiest country's in the world in the early 1900's?

    Back then Americans bought what they needed to live and very little else, they paid for their homes and everything else in cash/gold. Edward Bernays came along with a massive discovery, by linking products to our subconscious desires, he could influence people to buy goods and services.

    A little reading on the subconscious brain and how easy it is to twist things...

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/health/psychology/31subl.html

    It's from the NY times, but it does give source's.


    A little reading on Bernays and some sound bites from an interview with Bernays.

    Edward L. Bernays Biography | Encyclopedia of World Biography Biography

    bio


    Freud's Nephew and the Origins of Public Relations : NPR

    It's npr, so that might scare away you repubs out there reading my blog.....lol, don't worry, I'm an independent, so you can tell your friends about me.

    A great place to start is a free video online called the century of self, here is the link for that.

    The Century of the self 4 of 4


    What got me started even thinking about all of this was a video on the news when the iPhone came out, all those people standing in line to buy a phone(no matter how cool it is), already talking on a cell phone.

    How could people needlessly go out and spend money like that i wondered? While some people have a need for such a device, most people do not.

    A telling quote from the movie provides us with a look at the answer.


    He cites Paul Mazer, a Wall Street banker working for Lehman Brothers in
    the
    1930s: "We must shift America from a needs- to a desires-culture. People
    must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been
    entirely consumed. [...] Man's desires must overshadow his needs."


    From our first days we have been breed to be consumers, to keep buying, borrowing, and spending. So much so that 40% of Americans SPEND more then the earn every year.


    It's very telling about what lies ahead if we cant keep borrowing and spending at this reckless pace. 70% of US GDP is consumer spending, which means for US GDP to go up each year, consumer spending has to increase each year or you have to make up the difference in other places.


    The company's help along your decision to buy thru the use of two tactics, planned obsolescence


    Planned obsolescence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    And perceived obsolescence.


    With perceived being the worst of the two, anyone who was a teen in the late 50's up to today knows what high school was like if you did not have the right clothes/cars/etc.

    Perceived obsolescence or "keeping up with the Joneses" is what has driven this consumerism madness.


    Every person reading this knows what I'm saying is true, deep in your heart you have judged and been judged by what you wear/eat/drive/etc.


    We are social creatures and feel the need to fit into whatever little group(circle of friends) we feel we belong too, we adopt their habits,clothing,goals,beli
    efs of many of our friends,lovers, co workers and family members in order to be accepted.

    We need to stop this behaviour.
     

    Fletch

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    I'm pretty well convinced that consumerism is overblown as a problem, and that personal money management is under-emphasized as a solution.

    I for one stood in line for 3 hours to get an iPhone. I wanted one, and I could afford one. I didn't put a second mortgage on the house to get it, I just plunked down my cash and walked out of the store. That's not consumerism, that's just a guy buying something he thinks is cool.

    If I had done so with a maxed out credit card, two car payments, and a double-mortgaged house, you might call it consumerism, I just call it poor money management skills. As Dave Ramsey puts it, 80% of money management is controlling your behavior and doing stuff that makes sense instead of what feels good. Once the behavior is under control, buy the crap you like.
     

    rockhopper46038

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    I'm in Fletch's camp. It's not a problem of buying stuff, it's a problem of people spending money they don't have. Sure there are professionals out there trying hard to get you to want something you may not need, but in the end the responsibility lies with the individual to either make good choices with their money, or not.
     

    CarmelHP

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    I'm in Fletch's camp. It's not a problem of buying stuff, it's a problem of people spending money they don't have. Sure there are professionals out there trying hard to get you to want something you may not need, but in the end the responsibility lies with the individual to either make good choices with their money, or not.

    That part of it, spending money you don't have, has only really been a problem for a few decades. When banks decided they could borrow money at 2% and loan it out at 30% after most usury laws were repealed during the Carter era inflation, all hell broke loose with the credit binge. Only the tip of that problem has been exposed in the mortgage meltdown. People who could afford it, have consumed in excess for eons, it's not new. Thriftiness and making do came from poverty.
     

    Randall Flagg

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    I'm pretty well convinced that consumerism is overblown as a problem, and that personal money management is under-emphasized as a solution.

    I for one stood in line for 3 hours to get an iPhone. I wanted one, and I could afford one. I didn't put a second mortgage on the house to get it, I just plunked down my cash and walked out of the store. That's not consumerism, that's just a guy buying something he thinks is cool.

    If I had done so with a maxed out credit card, two car payments, and a double-mortgaged house, you might call it consumerism, I just call it poor money management skills. As Dave Ramsey puts it, 80% of money management is controlling your behavior and doing stuff that makes sense instead of what feels good. Once the behavior is under control, buy the crap you like.


    First let me state that without 40% of Americans spending more then they earned, then the USA economy would be like 5th or 6th in the world right? you do realize that right?

    Consumerism is best described as buying items you dont need to live, hence your iphone example is a perfect one, being that time and not money is everyones most valuable asset, you seem happy to have wasted 3 hours of your life that you can never get back, for a phone that you did not need, but since you could afford it and it was "cool", you justified it in your mind.

    The word cool, is another propaganda word, used to move the masses to buy products they dont need, in order to impress their group of friends. Sadly it stops being cool in your circle of friends. You can have the iphone,the newest threads, the sweetest ride, and to your friends you are the coolest dude on the planet, come into a bar with me and my friends and your coolness disappears, because your only cool to people you know, material items only impress those close to you, no one sees you and says "hey, that guy must be cool, he has an iphone, i wish i could be his friend".

    If I had done so with a maxed out credit card, two car payments, and a double-mortgaged house, you might call it consumerism

    No i would call it stupid, again consumerism is buying any items you dont need in order to live, hence the quote i provided in my op.

    "We must shift America from a needs- to a desires-culture. People
    must be trained to desire, to want new things, even before the old have been
    entirely consumed. [...] Man's desires must overshadow his needs."


    With that quote in mind, lets review your purchase of your new iphone.
    1. did you have a cell phone before you bought your iphone?
    2. at the time you bought your iphone, did your cell phone work?
    3. even if your cell phone did not work, could you not find anything better to spend 600 bucks on, when most cell phones run 150 or less?
    4. do you run a multi million dollar company were you need to be online at any time he of the day in order to track shipments and the such?
    5. is there something the iphone can do that your normal internet at home or regular cell phone could not do?

    This is in no way a post to put you down or your purchase down, it is just simply a look at why people do what they do, you just happened to reply with a perfect example of consumerism.


    The meaning of consumerism is not that it only takes place to people in debt, as CarmelHP pointed out, it has been a recent event that the middle class and poor are now consumers, as for the rest of history, only the very well to do were consumers.

    Consumerism is a social and economic order that is based on the systematic creation and fostering of a desire to purchase goods or services in ever greater amounts.

    Hope this did not offend you sir, as that was not my intention. We have all been in this trap, no one has been excused until they understand the problem, and the main one is the mass control of the group mind.

    Hope this explains the op a little better to everyone else.
     

    Randall Flagg

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    Let me state that it is sometimes hard to look into our soul for the truth about why we do things and believe things, but the reward of clearing your mind of all that clutter and programming is refreshing to say the least.

    Also along the same lines of the op, has anyone ever heard the term "branding" used, but with nothing to do with cattle herds?

    Attitude branding and Iconic brands

    Attitude branding is the choice to represent a larger feeling, which is not necessarily connected with the product or consumption of the product at all. Marketing labeled as attitude branding include that of Nike, Starbucks, The Body Shop, Safeway, and Apple Inc.. In the 2000 book No Logo,[10] Naomi Klein describes attitude branding as a "fetish strategy".


    Iconic brands are defined as having aspects that contribute to consumer's self-expression and personal identity. Brands whose value to consumers comes primarily from having identity value comes are said to be "identity brands". Some of these brands have such a strong identity that they become more or less "cultural icons" which makes them iconic brands.

    Examples of iconic brands are: Apple Inc., Nike and Harley Davidson. Many iconic brands include almost ritual-like behaviour when buying and consuming the products.

    There are four key elements to creating iconic brands (Holt 2004):
    1. "Necessary conditions" - The performance of the product must at least be ok preferably with a reputation of having good quality.
    2. "Myth-making" - A meaningful story-telling fabricated by cultural "insiders". These must be seen as legitimate and respected by consumers for stories to be accepted.
    3. "Cultural contradictions" - Some kind of mismatch between prevailing ideology and emergent undercurrents in society. In other words a difference with the way consumers are and how they some times wish they were.
    4. "The cultural brand management process" - Actively engaging in the myth-making process making sure the brand maintains its position as an icon.
    Brand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     

    Eddie

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    First let me state that without 40% of Americans spending more then they earned, then the USA economy would be like 5th or 6th in the world right? you do realize that right?

    Consumerism is best described as buying items you dont need to live, hence your iphone example is a perfect one, being that time and not money is everyones most valuable asset, you seem happy to have wasted 3 hours of your life that you can never get back, for a phone that you did not need, but since you could afford it and it was "cool", you justified it in your mind.

    The word cool, is another propaganda word, used to move the masses to buy products they dont need, in order to impress their group of friends. Sadly it stops being cool in your circle of friends. You can have the iphone,the newest threads, the sweetest ride, and to your friends you are the coolest dude on the planet, come into a bar with me and my friends and your coolness disappears, because your only cool to people you know, material items only impress those close to you, no one sees you and says "hey, that guy must be cool, he has an iphone, i wish i could be his friend".



    No i would call it stupid, again consumerism is buying any items you dont need in order to live, hence the quote i provided in my op.




    With that quote in mind, lets review your purchase of your new iphone.
    1. did you have a cell phone before you bought your iphone?
    2. at the time you bought your iphone, did your cell phone work?
    3. even if your cell phone did not work, could you not find anything better to spend 600 bucks on, when most cell phones run 150 or less?
    4. do you run a multi million dollar company were you need to be online at any time he of the day in order to track shipments and the such?
    5. is there something the iphone can do that your normal internet at home or regular cell phone could not do?

    This is in no way a post to put you down or your purchase down, it is just simply a look at why people do what they do, you just happened to reply with a perfect example of consumerism.


    The meaning of consumerism is not that it only takes place to people in debt, as CarmelHP pointed out, it has been a recent event that the middle class and poor are now consumers, as for the rest of history, only the very well to do were consumers.



    Hope this did not offend you sir, as that was not my intention. We have all been in this trap, no one has been excused until they understand the problem, and the main one is the mass control of the group mind.

    Hope this explains the op a little better to everyone else.

    I buy lots of stuff that I don't need to live, but I do it after the bills are paid and I do it with cash as opposed to credit cards. Here are my two basic rules to live by:

    1. Don't spend more than you earn.
    2. Save up for the inevitable emergencies.
     

    Fletch

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    First let me state that without 40% of Americans spending more then they earned, then the USA economy would be like 5th or 6th in the world right? you do realize that right?

    I do realize that, and I don't care. I still don't think people should do it, because it's stupid.

    Consumerism is best described as buying items you dont need to live, hence your iphone example is a perfect one, being that time and not money is everyones most valuable asset, you seem happy to have wasted 3 hours of your life that you can never get back, for a phone that you did not need, but since you could afford it and it was "cool", you justified it in your mind.
    I justified it because it's what I wanted to do. I like my iPhone. I think it's the cat's ass.

    The word cool, is another propaganda word, used to move the masses to buy products they dont need, in order to impress their group of friends. Sadly it stops being cool in your circle of friends.
    Now you're assuming facts not in evidence. You don't know enough about me to say that "cool" in my mind equates to "impressing my friends". I'm a nerd. I don't have any friends. "Cool" to me is something that I can use and derive a lot of utility/pleasure out of.

    No i would call it stupid, again consumerism is buying any items you dont need in order to live, hence the quote i provided in my op.
    You don't need anything you own to live. All you need is a basic shelter, a given number of calories a day, and some moderately clean drinking water. By your definition, everything that relates to quality of life beyond grinding poverty is only the result of corporate mind control, and that's BS, plain and simple.

    With that quote in mind, lets review your purchase of your new iphone.
    1. did you have a cell phone before you bought your iphone?
    2. at the time you bought your iphone, did your cell phone work?
    3. even if your cell phone did not work, could you not find anything better to spend 600 bucks on, when most cell phones run 150 or less?
    If you're going to ask these questions, at least get your facts right. The latest generation iPhone is $199. Has been since the 3G was released.

    4. do you run a multi million dollar company were you need to be online at any time he of the day in order to track shipments and the such?
    No.

    5. is there something the iphone can do that your normal internet at home or regular cell phone could not do?
    Yes.

    This is in no way a post to put you down or your purchase down, it is just simply a look at why people do what they do, you just happened to reply with a perfect example of consumerism.
    No, I happened to reply with a perfect example of positive-sum exchange. I exchanged something I valued less (money) for something I valued more (an iPhone). Apple did the same thing, in reverse.
     

    Hotdoger

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    Consumerism is best described as buying items you dont need to live, hence your iphone example is a perfect one, being that time and not money is everyones most valuable asset, you seem happy to have wasted 3 hours of your life that you can never get back, for a phone that you did not need, but since you could afford it and it was "cool", you justified it in your mind.


    Consumerism equals freedom.

    Who the heck are you to say he wasted 3 hours of HIS life?

    I can see why you have the screen name Randall Flagg.:rolleyes:
     

    Fletch

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    Consumerism equals freedom.

    Who the heck are you to say he wasted 3 hours of HIS life?

    Exactly. Value is subjective. I had a lot of fun in that line, and I'd much rather hang out in a crowd of Apple fanboys for 3 hours than do a lot of things for 3 hours. I'm absolutely positive there's something that the OP enjoys, that takes time to do, that I would consider an absolute waste of time. That doesn't mean it's an objective waste of time, it just means that he and I have different preferences.

    Some of us don't need everyone to have the same preferences to feel good about ourselves. If you like square dancing or gay porn or getting sloppy-ass drunk, more power to ya. Me, I'll be over here playing with my gadgets. You don't have to come, and frankly in most cases I'd rather you didn't.
     

    Randall Flagg

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    I buy lots of stuff that I don't need to live, but I do it after the bills are paid and I do it with cash as opposed to credit cards. Here are my two basic rules to live by:

    1. Don't spend more than you earn.
    2. Save up for the inevitable emergencies.

    I might have not explained myself carefully, we all engage in buying things we dont need to live, i agree with what your post states as well. I will explain myself a little better when time permits.


    Consumerism equals freedom.

    Ah yes, i see it now, third line of the constitution right?

    Who the heck are you to say he wasted 3 hours of HIS life

    Um, someone who researched time management maybe?

    I can see why you have the screen name Randall Flagg

    Ah, personal insults, the hallmark of any truly intelligent person, bravo for pulling that one out.

    I justified it because it's what I wanted to do. I like my iPhone. I think it's the cat's ass.

    The hard part comes by explaining WHY you wanted it. Why did you feel the need to have this phone.

    I'm a nerd. I don't have any friends.

    Humans are social creatures, regardless of what you say, there is always a pull inside us to seek out and be accepted others.
    But that your case maybe be different from the millions that are the same, does not dismiss the claim i made about "cool".


    If you're going to ask these questions, at least get your facts right. The latest generation iPhone is $199. Has been since the 3G was released.
    from what i understand you only had to wait in line when the iphone first came out. you waited in line for a phone easily able to be purchased anywhere in 5 mins, you went to the only store on the planet that you had to wait 3 hours at?

    That is strange.
     

    88GT

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    That part of it, spending money you don't have, has only really been a problem for a few decades. When banks decided they could borrow money at 2% and loan it out at 30% after most usury laws were repealed during the Carter era inflation, all hell broke loose with the credit binge. Only the tip of that problem has been exposed in the mortgage meltdown. People who could afford it, have consumed in excess for eons, it's not new. Thriftiness and making do came from poverty.

    I disagree with blaming the banks. People still had to be stupid enough to take what was being offered.

    I might have not explained myself carefully, we all engage in buying things we dont need to live, i agree with what your post states as well. I will explain myself a little better when time permits.




    Ah yes, i see it now, third line of the constitution right?



    Um, someone who researched time management maybe?



    Ah, personal insults, the hallmark of any truly intelligent person, bravo for pulling that one out.



    The hard part comes by explaining WHY you wanted it. Why did you feel the need to have this phone.



    Humans are social creatures, regardless of what you say, there is always a pull inside us to seek out and be accepted others.
    But that your case maybe be different from the millions that are the same, does not dismiss the claim i made about "cool".


    from what i understand you only had to wait in line when the iphone first came out. you waited in line for a phone easily able to be purchased anywhere in 5 mins, you went to the only store on the planet that you had to wait 3 hours at?

    That is strange.

    Yes, yes, it is. Don't have time to explain yourself more fully, but still have time to respond individually to every perceived point of opposition? Talk about wasting time. :n00b:
     

    Fletch

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    Humans are social creatures, regardless of what you say, there is always a pull inside us to seek out and be accepted others.
    But that your case maybe be different from the millions that are the same, does not dismiss the claim i made about "cool".

    And again, you know two things about me: jack and squat. But on the basis of some armchair psychology and a conspiracy theory about modern advertising, you're going to say that corporate mind control is the only reason I'd buy an iPhone.

    from what i understand you only had to wait in line when the iphone first came out. you waited in line for a phone easily able to be purchased anywhere in 5 mins, you went to the only store on the planet that you had to wait 3 hours at?

    Your assertions are all over the place. You had to wait in line, but you could easily purchase it anywhere in 5 minutes, and there is only one store on the planet where there was a line. Which of these is what you're actually trying to say?

    I'm an Apple developer. I've been to WWDC a handful of times. I'm currently plotting to make my travels of the next few years include PAX, San Diego ComicCon, and BlizzCon. Why? Because nerd culture is my culture. I like these people. I like hanging out with them. Standing in that line was like a mini-convention of Apple nerds. You don't have to understand it (and clearly you don't), but it's the same kind of camaraderie one gets from rooting for the same football team, hanging out with fellow gunnies at the range, or chilling at your local watering hole. I'm not sorry I did it, and I'll probably do it again some day. Just because you don't get it doesn't make your point any more valid.
     

    level.eleven

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    Just to nitpick on your time management comment, I would assume the same "professionals" would argue that publishing a blog with c/p articles from other websites is a waste of time as well. At least the surly curmudgeon cranks out original commentary. That's not an personal attack, rather a critique of an argument you presented. There is no legitimate reason to dictate the value of time, money, etc. to others. That is a personal decision.

    Economic collapse

    And, yes, the free exchange of goods and services is the hallmark of freedom, regardless of need. Part of that freedom also involves living with the consequences of your consumer actions. As others have pointed out, if you are truly in favor of ending "consumerism" educating individuals on how to set up and execute a budget is preferred over limiting the free market. Of course consumerism exists, of course branding is used. If you entered the market as a business owner you would soon find a need for such devices if you wished to remain competitive.
     

    Fletch

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    Just to nitpick on your time management comment, I would assume the same "professionals" would argue that publishing a blog with c/p articles from other websites is a waste of time as well. At least the surly curmudgeon cranks out original commentary.

    Hey, thanks for the props! It's also interesting to note that over this past weekend, I exceeded the 3-hour mark doing something equally nerdy: learning how to tie knots. Sure, it was a lot cheaper, but some would say it's just as much a waste of time, especially since I kept practicing and playing with them long after I'd finished learning them.

    I wonder whose approval I was seeking then? Must have been a conspiracy by Big Rope.
     

    moischmoe

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    I was at Wal-mart the other day and saw some red, white and blue flip flops. I remember thinking, "Oh, I hope my mother-in-law doesn't buy those for my kids." That's exactly the kind of thing she does. They already have flip flops, but she has to get them more because; these have Elmo on them, these are for the 4th of July, these were only a dollar, these are just cute, ect... That's consumerism. It doesn't have to be big ticket items.
     

    Fletch

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    I was at Wal-mart the other day and saw some red, white and blue flip flops. I remember thinking, "Oh, I hope my mother-in-law doesn't buy those for my kids." That's exactly the kind of thing she does. They already have flip flops, but she has to get them more because; these have Elmo on them, these are for the 4th of July, these were only a dollar, these are just cute, ect... That's consumerism. It doesn't have to be big ticket items.
    Now this I can agree with. I know people with that kind of spending problem; I think we all do. But a person who simply decides to buy something because they like it or believe they'll derive some use/pleasure from it... that's not necessarily consumerism.

    Mindless consumption, consumerism.
    Redundant consumption, consumerism.
    "I like this and I have the money to spare, so I think I'll buy it"... not consumerism.
     

    CarmelHP

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    I disagree with blaming the banks. People still had to be stupid enough to take what was being offered.

    It's not blaming the banks exactly. It just wasn't done before. Banks wouldn't loan money to poor credit risks at large amounts until the interest spread made the risk worthwhile. That's explaining, not blaming. Most people just didn't get the opportunity to blow cash they didn't have and weren't likely to get before that time.
     

    88GT

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    It's not blaming the banks exactly. It just wasn't done before. Banks wouldn't loan money to poor credit risks at large amounts until the interest spread made the risk worthwhile. That's explaining, not blaming. Most people just didn't get the opportunity to blow cash they didn't have and weren't likely to get before that time.

    LOL, it's making a cause and effect connection. Call it explaining or blaming, same difference. I don't disagree though. The availability of credit where it once didn't exist is obviously a key contributor. But the individual's behavior is still the ultimate factor.
     
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