Senate Hearings - Thoughts

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  • youngda9

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    Much of the Senate hearings today revolved around what is reasonable for a citizen to have. Everyone was discussing what is "reasonable". I am a strict Constitutionalist so I think all restrictions being suggested are garbage. I don't believe many on the Anti side have a clue what happens out in the real world, and they scoff at the suggestion that a citizen requires the same type of firepower as the police. I think framing the argument in the following manner might sway some to our side.

    Citizens should at least have equal arms as the police. I believe this is a standard that the pro-gun side should be pushing harder for the following reasons:

    The police use firearms to defend and protect lives, the same way average Joe Citizen does. Their overwhelming choice for effectiveness is semi-auto handguns and AR-15 rifles. The SA handguns have standard magazine round counts in the teens and the AR-15 has a standard 30 round magazine. Police officers also carry spare ammunition magazines on their belts.

    The police choose these firearms, as do the majority of citizens, DESPITE the great advantages that officers have.
    Officers, unlike citizens, typically get to determine the Where, How, and When a confrontation with a criminal occurs. Police have the element of surprise on their side over Criminals.
    • Where: In many instances police determine where they will confront bad guys. They track them down and ensure the confrontation is done in a way that maximizes officer safety.
    • How: Officers typically work in pairs and they also have the advantages of radios to call up their equally well-armed buddies to assist them in any confrontation. They have group tactics that they employ to help ensure their success and safety. They have superior numbers, tactics, and firepower.
    • When: Officers will hold back and wait until their back-up arrives to sway the numbers on their side for a confrontation. They will confront the bad guys when they believe they have the tactical advantage over them. Offiders have the element of surprise on their side.
    Joe Citizen does not have any of the aforementioned luxuries when their home is being invaded, when they are being robbed at gunpoint, or when they are being raped. Criminals have all of the advantages over Joe Citizen...they determine the where, How, and When a violent confrontation will occur. Criminals have the element of surprise on their side over Joe Citizen. Criminals typically have the numbers on their side, weather they are attacking a smaller person/woman, or they are operating in a group. It is more imperative that the average citizen actually be BETTER armed than the police officers.

    Police hit ratios are horrible...I've heard many statistics that say less than 20% of their shots find the intended target. This despite all of the claims we hear about how well trained they are. We've also heard many many stories about bad guys taking multiple hits before going down. If there is more than one bad guy the amounts of rounds potentially needed increases dramatically.

    ( #BG X #Hits / %Hits) = LOTS-O-BULLETS-NEEDED

    Just today in the Senate hearing they were discussing a lady who emptied her 6 shot revolver into a guy invading her home, hitting him 5 times, and he was able to drive himself to the hospital. This lady's hit ratio is MUCH higher than the police officers and much higher than any of us would realistically dream of achieving should we be put in such a situation. If this guy decided to keep coming at her she and her children would be dead. If he had brought one or more of his criminal friends this lady and her children would be dead.

    Anyways, I just thought the opportunity was missed today to present an argument along these lines.
     

    Dwight

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    Apr 24, 2011
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    Youngda9 - I love this comparison. We regulary trained on "defensive tactics" and it was a big deal to make sure we were not viewed as taking an offensive posture.

    A law abiding individual carrying a gun is using it for defense in the same manner. Great arguments that I will be using!

    Reppage!
     

    buckhunter21

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    Jan 24, 2013
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    Southeast Indiana
    This is a comparison I hadn't even thought about. Great read that makes sense. Police are armed to help protect citizens. Individuals should be given then exact same options when protecting their loved ones.
     

    kludge

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    Mar 13, 2008
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    Oh, and it should be pointed out that the LEO has no legal responsibility to protect you or anyone else when they show up...

    They don't even have a legal responsibility to show up at all.

    Sobering.
     

    sparkyfender

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    Mar 20, 2008
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    Their minds are made up, all else is window dressing as they play at being truly concerned and desiring input..............

    Still counting on those standard capacity magazines being reasonable and available again?
    I'm not.
     

    edporch

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    Oct 19, 2010
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    The police and people who guard our government officials from the President on down should ONLY be able to carry firearms the rest of us are allowed to carry.

    Anything less is hypocrisy.

    No LEGITIMATE leaders would tell us to do something they aren't willing to do themselves.
     

    HenryWallace

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    Jan 7, 2013
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    Fort Wayne
    All excellent points here. It's all about equality... And the oh so obvious "do as I do". Not the 'Do as I say'. There should be no separate or double standards set forth to or for anyone. To do so hinders on the brink of Genocide. And inevitably becomes it.
     

    jb1911

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    Nov 21, 2011
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    Dyer, IN
    The police and people who guard our government officials from the President on down should ONLY be able to carry firearms the rest of us are allowed to carry.

    Anything less is hypocrisy.

    No LEGITIMATE leaders would tell us to do something they aren't willing to do themselves.

    Good luck finding one of those in Washington.
     

    shooter651

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    Nov 6, 2010
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    Obama Care? how many politicians have adopted that?

    The police and people who guard our government officials from the President on down should ONLY be able to carry firearms the rest of us are allowed to carry.

    Anything less is hypocrisy.

    No LEGITIMATE leaders would tell us to do something they aren't willing to do themselves.
     

    jb1911

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    Nov 21, 2011
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    Obama Care? how many politicians have adopted that?

    They're exempt from it. The aides that actually wrote this abomination for the congress people are also exempt from it.

    Diane Frankenstein's proposed bill also exempts congress members.
     

    MoparMan

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    Apr 11, 2009
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    Most of them live in gated communities and some even have private security so im sure they aren't worried about having to defend their lives.
     

    Sgt7330

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    Jan 25, 2011
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    Rush Co.
    I, as a LEO, agree that citizens should have same access to the firearms that I am issued on duty. I dont always have the element of surprise over criminals, wish it were true, but good points indeed.
    That, and I hope when I'm being overrun or out gunned some citizen would throw me an extra mag from that same type of gun........ or put some rounds on the threat
     

    Indy60

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    Nov 10, 2012
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    Sure is split down party lines. I have no idea where the vote will end up when the actual bill hits the floor. Sorry to say, I believe a ban will take place on the AR platform and 30 rd mags.
     

    Jeremy1066

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    Apr 25, 2011
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    During the Revolutionary war, We The People, succeeded because we had weapons that were equivalent or better than the foes we were facing. Had we been limited to sling shots and spears, we would not have won our freedom. Is it a coincidence that the current government does not want We The People to have equivalent arms?
     

    Faine

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    Feb 2, 2012
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    Indy (South Side)
    Contrary to popular belief, police officers don't carry guns to protect civilians. Police officers carry guns to defend themselves! This is why they practice defensive shooting and why a single marine with an Ar15 and combat training (offensive shooting skills) can pick apart a police squad armed with much more firepower. Youtube for evidence. Good read OP, it's just a pet peeve of mine that people think police are there to defend them when they are there to stop crimes in progress or after the fact to investigate.
     
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