About the government buying ammo....(good read)

[LarryC]

Originally Posted by netsecurity

Yes, that is probably true, but doesn't negate the fact that if you bought 450M FMJ rounds, it would cost half as much as 450M HP.

Like I said, saying this was done as a cost savings is an absolute oxymoron. Saying you must QUALIFY with HP ammo is fine, but you don't even need this much ammo for qualifying.

I don't see this as a worry, some ranges won't allow FMJ due to increased penetration, and more likelihood of ricochet. Plus as one poster stated some do want to have the officers practice with the same round they carry (and don't want the officers to use FMJ in a firefight due to increased ricochet and penetration issues - as well as less stopping power). The other issue of cost, if they did a cost analysis it would be the first accurate one I have ever seen from the government - and if it were accurate they would ignore it like they always do - isn't their money!

[pudly]

Originally Posted by LarryC

I don't see this as a worry, some ranges won't allow FMJ due to increased penetration, and more likelihood of ricochet.

Seriously?? I've never heard of that.

[Bunnykid68]

Originally Posted by pudly

Seriously?? I've never heard of that.

Me either

[Racechase1]

The government doesn't care weather is FMJ or HP, nor the cost. They're not spending their money, their spending ours.

[STEEL CORE]

Good article.

[U.S. Patriot]

What is so hard to understand? If I could afford it, I would use HP ammo when I train, but I can't. I'll go back to the old saying of, "train as you fight, fight as you train". If you can afford it, train with the same ammo you are going to carry. I did a lot of LE when I was in the Coast Guard. We trained with the same gear and equipment that we used day to day. Does that not make sense? There are units that will burn through hundreds too thousands of rounds before they deploy, and not for training either. Just so they do not loose it in the next years budget. Yet, I see no one *****ing and moaning about all that wasted money. Yet, some will ***** and moan, because DHS trains with the same ammo that they carry. I think some of you need to steep outside and take a deep breath.

[netsecurity]

Originally Posted by U.S. Patriot

What is so hard to understand? If I could afford it, I would use HP ammo when I train, but I can't. I'll go back to the old saying of, "train as you fight, fight as you train". If you can afford it, train with the same ammo you are going to carry. I did a lot of LE when I was in the Coast Guard. We trained with the same gear and equipment that we used day to day. Does that not make sense? There are units that will burn through hundreds too thousands of rounds before they deploy, and not for training either. Just so they do not loose it in the next years budget. Yet, I see no one *****ing and moaning about all that wasted money. Yet, some will ***** and moan, because DHS trains with the same ammo that they carry. I think some of you need to steep outside and take a deep breath.

1.6 Billion rounds is the total count I've heard. Now I agree that many small purchases pointed out in the article are not newsworthy. But these large purchases are suspicious at the least. What would the government say if they were expecting something bad to happen? Well, probably about what was in that article just to keep everyone calm.

Watch at least the first three minutes of this video. You tell me how we are paranoid, when it is the Pentagon, and DHS who are literally arming up and publicly drilling for Armageddon inside our borders. Why is it that when they practice for economic collapse, we are supposed to say "oh that is just a contingency plan", and when they spend our tax money for it we are called paranoid for pointing that out?

You Tube

You Tube

Our government is building a heavily armed homeland defense, and training all the time for fighting Americans. That is a fact. If this doesn't make you raise an eyebrow then I would consider you a sheep. It isn't just the ammo purchases, it is the totality of the situation, with drones being approved, APC's, and all the briefs about rounding up the preppers first. I agree that alone, the ammo purchase would just be a huge waste of money, which is unfortunately how the government operates with our tax money, even in a massive recession.

[U.S. Patriot]

Originally Posted by netsecurity

1.6 Billion rounds is the total count I've heard. Now I agree that many small purchases pointed out in the article are not newsworthy. But these large purchases are suspicious at the least. What would the government say if they were expecting something bad to happen? Well, probably about what was in that article just to keep everyone calm.

Watch at least the first three minutes of this video. You tell me how we are paranoid, when it is the Pentagon, and DHS who are literally arming up and publicly drilling for Armageddon inside our borders. Why is it that when they practice for economic collapse, we are supposed to say "oh that is just a contingency plan", and when they spend our tax money for it we are called paranoid for pointing that out?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bUz1BAkDcI

Our government is building a heavily armed homeland defense, and training all the time for fighting Americans. That is a fact. If this doesn't make you raise an eyebrow then I would consider you a sheep. It isn't just the ammo purchases, it is the totality of the situation, with drones being approved, APC's, and all the briefs about rounding up the preppers first. I agree that alone, the ammo purchase would just be a huge waste of money, which is unfortunately how the government operates with our tax money, even in a massive recession.

You got me, I'm a sheep. This whole time I tried to hide it. Can you prove that the DHS has actually taken possession of 1.6 billion rounds? Or have they simply solicited. I think you have no clue how Government contracts work. Do me a favor. Find out how many members of the DHS are required to qualify every year. Then find out how many rounds each member fires per year to qualify. I do my best to stay informed, but I'm not one to cry wolf either.

[rbhargan]

I have no idea whether the amount of ammo being purchased by the government is excessive or not. However, if the government wanted to dispel the rumors currently circulating on the internet, they could do so very easily by releasing the following information:

1) How much ammunition is purchased each year, broken down by agency.
2) How much ammunition is expended in training each year, broken down by agency.
3) What baseline stockpile does each agency maintain.
4) Report all of the above information for each of the previous 10 years.

[HoughMade]

To quell the concerns of a relative few?

The info is there to be gathered and apparently they are putting info out there to those who ask. Why aren't the people spreading the fear asking these questions of people who would know?