Taxes?

[Redemption]

I always hear everyone * about taxes. I hate them as much as anyone else but do realize they are a necessary evil to live in the state we live. We have to have roads, we have to have bridges, and we have to have schools and infrastructure. I do not mind paying taxes so these things can exist. I do not want to pay taxes for entitlement type spending such as wlefare living, etc., etc.

My question is, we all hate property taxes and income taxes, so how do we collect a tax to pay for the things we can't as individuals or even small communities afford?

Sin taxes are out because they are just stupid. Would a sales tax even come close to what is needed and would it drive off purchases and encourage a more do it/build it yourself society?

 

[IndyMonkey]

My question is, we all hate property taxes and income taxes, so how do we collect a tax to pay for the things we can't as individuals or even small communities afford?

Why do you feel the need/entitlement for something you can not afford?

 

[Redemption]

Why do you feel the need/entitlement for something you can not afford?

You mean like, a bridge or a road?

or maybe something else that benefits everyone....? Serious replies only, Kthx.

 

[IndyMonkey]

You mean like, a bridge or a road?

or maybe something else that benefits everyone....? Serious replies only, Kthx.

Yes a super nice bridge with neon light (465 and 71st st on the west side).

We have become a nation of excess, nothing more nothing less.

Go spend some time in another country then come back and look at the wasteful lifestyle that we as Americans have decided was a necessity.

kthx

 

[Redemption]

Yes a super nice bridge with neon light (465 and 71st st on the west side).

We have become a nation of excess, nothing more nothing less.

Go spend some time in another country then come back and look at the wasteful lifestyle that we as Americans have decided was a necessity.

kthx

OK, I'll just buy 2 trucks. I'll leave one across the Wabash to drive to work after I drive to the bank in the other on my side and row across. I agree, a crossing for everyone is an entitlement. As for other countries, been there, done that. Europe has some mighty fine bridges. Thx for reply.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Government waste on infrastructure, you dont seem to be grasping the excessiveness of it.

We need the bridge, but we dont need a 6 lane bridge with ornate stone work to resemble an European castle.

 

[Redemption]

Government waste on infrastructure, you dont seem to be grasping the excessiveness of it.

We need the bridge, but we dont need a 6 lane bridge with ornate stone work to resemble an European castle.

You missed the entire point of excess and entitlement....I just want to go to f'ng work and can't build a bridge myself. You can't either. How do we pay for it? No strip clubs in the design. That better?

 

[lashicoN]

You guys should both take some deep breaths and step away for a second. You're both saying basically the same thing.

We want bridges, but we don't want expensive bridges. We just need a simple one that works. How do we get that simple cheap bridge? Sales tax. IndyMonkey is right, cut out all the fancy crap and sales tax alone will cover everything we need.

We don't need to have our roads repaved every year, but it's nice...at a large cost to tax payers. I think what we're "bytching" about is that we're sick of being taxed so much money and we'll happily take the crappy road for four years before it's repaved, because that's all we need.

It would be nice to have a 60" plasma in every room of my house, but it's expensive and I don't need it, so I am not willing to rack up the massive debt it would take to do that. That's how people feeling about our massively-in-debt government (Federal) right now. Our state is doing fine, but we can always have lower taxes and less services.

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

Yes a super nice bridge with neon light (465 and 71st st on the west side).

We have become a nation of excess, nothing more nothing less.

Go spend some time in another country then come back and look at the wasteful lifestyle that we as Americans have decided was a necessity.

kthx

I agree 100%. My wife & I goto Costa Rica every year. We have everything that we need without all of the excess. Indy is right. Spend some time in another country and compare. Flying back into the indy airport at night will really open your eyes. Talk about excess......

 

[Fletch]

The mere fact that taxes are "needed" to build such things is all the evidence we need to show that people don't want them. If people see a need for something, they will pay for it. If you've got to hold a gun to their heads and extract the money to pay for it, it's clear that they don't want it.

Bridges and roads and such were provided by the free market in this country long before government got involved, and by all accounts did a much better job (see DiLorenzo). This is true in Oklahoma, where the best roads are the toll roads, and the crummiest ones are the "free" ones. I-44 through Oklahoma is generally smooth, fast, and relatively hassle-free. I-35 and I-40 are good roads to drive on if you hate your tires and suspension.

If a bridge is truly needed, and taxes are not available to pay for it, some entrepreneur will find the financing, build it, and find ways to charge folks to cross it without mucking up traffic (eg, a Pikepass equivalent). If you've got no problem paying taxes to have a bridge, you should have no problem paying tolls to have a bridge.

 

[XMil]

You guys should both take some deep breaths and step away for a second. You're both saying basically the same thing.

True, but one of them is a troll.

 

[IndyMonkey]

True, but one of them is a troll.

 

[lashicoN]

I'd rather pay a toll than a tax. Use it when I need it, only.

 

[Fletch]

I'd rather pay a toll than a tax. Use it when I need it, only.

And it would be better for the environment and the road. People overuse things that are "free". If you had to pay a toll, you'd work harder to consolidate your trips and make your drivetime more efficient. Less time on the road = less wear on the road, and less pollution in the air.

 

[eldirector]

There you go making sense again, Fletch!

 

[cosermann]

Our tax problem is essentially a spending problem.

Control spending (maybe by starting to spend only within the limits of constitutional authority) and a sales tax would be perfectly adequate (and within philosophical bounds, I think).

 

[bigus_D]

Why not sin taxes??? I don't see them as stupid. Maybe I'm stupid. Are you calling me names??? MODS, MODS!!!

 

[Fletch]

Why not sin taxes??? I don't see them as stupid. Maybe I'm stupid. Are you calling me names??? MODS, MODS!!!

Sin taxes are on the worst moral footing. The essence of a sin tax is the following: "If you do this thing which you enjoy, I am entitled to take part of the money you spend on it merely because I find your behavior objectionable."

 

[bigus_D]

Sin taxes are on the worst moral footing.

I certainly don't have a strong opinion on this matter... Of course, I'm not a huge fan of taxes, but understand I'll have to pay mine. I hate paying property tax, but understand I benefit, as a property owner, from government services... I hate payroll taxes, because I'd rather have the money I'm making... sales taxes just slow down the economy. I don't have the right answer.

Anyhow, tax cigarettes for instance. A smoker costs taxpayers money.

Smokers Cost Taxpayers $10 Billion (the first link I found... this is not an assertion I've thoroughly researched or will defend).

How is it morally wrong for taxpayers to recoup that money through a "you are costing us money" tax?

 

[Fletch]

Anyhow, tax cigarettes for instance. A smoker costs taxpayers money.

Smokers Cost Taxpayers $10 Billion (the first link I found... this is not an assertion I've thoroughly researched or will defend).

How is it morally wrong for taxpayers to recoup that money through a "you are costing us money" tax?

How is it morally right for the government to tax us to pay for healthcare?