Gun Laws & Indiana

[jediagh]

Hi all,

Have a few question and I understand that none of your answers are LEGAL advise but figured I'll start here:

Question 1 – Leaving a firearm in a vehicle.
Having a lifetime permit do I need to …
a) secure my firearm in a locked container designed for firearms
b) place my firearm in the glove compartment and lock it
c) leave the firearm unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it
d) leave the firearm unsecured in the vehicle even were it can be seen
…if I choose to leave it behind in my vehicle while I enter a place of business because I can either not take it in with me or choose not to take it in with me.

For example when I visit the Postal Office to purchase stamps.

Question 2 – Is securing the firearm in the vehicle legal
Is it legal to…
a) Secured a firearm in a locked container designed for firearms with the firearm loaded (one round in the chamber or with a magazine with ammunition in it) and leaving it in your vehicle.
b) Secured a firearm in a locked container designed for firearms with the firearm unloaded (no round in the chamber or with an empty magazine in it) but with ammunition in the same secure container either loose or in a magazine that is not attached to the handgun and leaving it in your vehicle.
c) Secured a firearm in a locked container designed for firearms and the firearm is unloaded (no round in the chamber or with an empty magazine in it) and no ammunition in the secure container and leaving it in your vehicle.
d) Secured in the glove compartment in the same configuration as “example a” minus the locked container.
e) Secured in the glove compartment in the same configuration as “example b” minus the locked container.
f) Secured in the glove compartment in the same configuration as “example c” minus the locked container.
g) Left unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it in the same configuration as “example a” minus the locked container.
h) Left unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it in the same configuration as “example b” minus the locked container.
i) Left unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it in the same configuration as “example c” minus the locked container.
j) Left unsecured in the vehicle where it can be seen in the same configuration as “example a” minus the locked container.
k) Left unsecured in the vehicle where it can be seen in the same configuration as “example b” minus the locked container.
l) Left unsecured in the vehicle where it can be seen in the same configuration as “example c” minus the locked container.




Question 3 – Schools: Pickup Up, Dropping Off, Waiting and Going into School
Indiana Code 35-47-9-1 and 2 state the following:
Exemptions from chapter

Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

Question 3A.
Does this mean that one who has a valid carry permit cannot be on school property with a firearm with the except to “drop off/pick up” some other person?

Question 3B.
If so then what if the person allowed to carry the firearm needs to go into the school? Can the firearm be left in the vehicle based on the legally OK examples in question 2 of which all my not be correct.

Question 3C.
If this is OK can the vehicle be left on school property (parking lot) or does the vehicle need to be on public property (street parking).

Question 3D.
Is it OK to stay in your vehicle parked on school property to wait for your child to come out of the school building? Or should you wait with your vehicle on a public street when you have your firearm with you.



Question 4 - Schools and Field Trips
IC 35-47-9-2 states the following:
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

Question 4A.
Does section2.2 mean you are breaking the law if school ABC (where your child attends) goes to Zoo XYZ and you accompany your child as a chaperone and bring your firearm with you to the Zoo?

Question 4B.
What occurs if you take your child and/or family to Zoo XYZ on your own, not knowing that school ABC (where your child attends) or some other school is also at the zoo on the same day? Are you breaking the law then since the Zoo is being used by the school for a school function (field trip)?


Question 5 – Concealed or Open Carry
Having an Indiana gun license does it allow you to carry your firearm in open carry mode meaning it is displayed for anyone to see in the same fashion that police officers carry their firearms?


Question 6 – Can I shoot a raccoon, possum, rats, other small wild animals on my property?

[turnandshoot4]

1. With it you can keep it on your person. It is a Liscense to carry a handgun. Open or concealed. I wouldn't leave it, but that is just me. I have it with me to carry it. In the event you HAVE to leave it behind (metal detector, illegal, etc.) the locked glove box is a good choice.

2. Everywhere my firearms go (except the range) are loaded with one in the tube. I don't know if there is a law for this. Please help me out here guys

3a. I believe so.

4a. Looks like it is.

5. Carry it how you like! I mostly conceal carry but the open carry events here in NWI are a blast!

6. You would have to know the laws in your city/township. I have land waaaaay out in the country and it isn't a problem.

Hope this helps I didn't answer what I didn't know.

[Scutter01]

I recommend you take an NRA Basic Pistol course which will cover most of this information. I also recommend picking up a copy of "Indiana Handgun Law" (both 1st and 2nd editions) by Bryan Ciyou. It sounds like you have a lot of confusion over the details of Indiana law and you really need expert advice, not Internet Yahoos.

[AFA1CY]

Originally Posted by Scutter01

I recommend you take an NRA Basic Pistol course which will cover most of this information. I also recommend picking up a copy of "Indiana Handgun Law" (both 1st and 2nd editions) by Bryan Ciyou. It sounds like you have a lot of confusion over the details of Indiana law and you really need expert advice, not Internet Yahoos.

+1 - This should be a stickey (if not already)

[quiggly]

Ok lots of questions here but Ill try. Disclaimer I am not a lawyer or leo, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

First thing. Everyone say it together....You need to get this book.
Bryan Lee Ciyou: books by Bryan Lee Ciyou @ BookFinder.com

I embedded the rest of the answers.
Now the hacking of the answers begins.

Originally Posted by jediagh

Hi all,

Have a few question and I understand that none of your answers are LEGAL advise but figured I'll start here:

Question 1 – Leaving a firearm in a vehicle.
Having a lifetime permit do I need to … I don't believe LTCH is relevant as to how you "store" your firearms. I think there would be other legislation in place as to keeping them secure from children and such.

a) secure my firearm in a locked container designed for firearms BETTER
b) place my firearm in the glove compartment and lock it GOOD
c) leave the firearm unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it OK
d) leave the firearm unsecured in the vehicle even were it can be seen IRRESPONSIBLE
…if I choose to leave it behind in my vehicle while I enter a place of business because I can either not take it in with me or choose not to take it in with me.

For example when I visit the Postal Office to purchase stamps. FEDERAL PROPERTY NOT GOOD. BE AWARE OF WHERE YOU PARK.

Question 2 – Is securing the firearm in the vehicle legal
I don't think any of question 2 is applicable from a legal perspective. It does not matter the condition that you secure your firearms.
Is it legal to…
a) Secured a firearm in a locked container designed for firearms with the firearm loaded (one round in the chamber or with a magazine with ammunition in it) and leaving it in your vehicle.
b) Secured a firearm in a locked container designed for firearms with the firearm unloaded (no round in the chamber or with an empty magazine in it) but with ammunition in the same secure container either loose or in a magazine that is not attached to the handgun and leaving it in your vehicle.
c) Secured a firearm in a locked container designed for firearms and the firearm is unloaded (no round in the chamber or with an empty magazine in it) and no ammunition in the secure container and leaving it in your vehicle.
d) Secured in the glove compartment in the same configuration as “example a” minus the locked container.
e) Secured in the glove compartment in the same configuration as “example b” minus the locked container.
f) Secured in the glove compartment in the same configuration as “example c” minus the locked container.
g) Left unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it in the same configuration as “example a” minus the locked container.
h) Left unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it in the same configuration as “example b” minus the locked container.
i) Left unsecured in the vehicle so long as no one can see it in the same configuration as “example c” minus the locked container.
j) Left unsecured in the vehicle where it can be seen in the same configuration as “example a” minus the locked container.
k) Left unsecured in the vehicle where it can be seen in the same configuration as “example b” minus the locked container.
l) Left unsecured in the vehicle where it can be seen in the same configuration as “example c” minus the locked container.




Question 3 – Schools: Pickup Up, Dropping Off, Waiting and Going into School
Indiana Code 35-47-9-1 and 2 state the following:
Exemptions from chapter

Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

Question 3A. Yes
Does this mean that one who has a valid carry permit cannot be on school property with a firearm with the except to “drop off/pick up” some other person?

Question 3B. No
If so then what if the person allowed to carry the firearm needs to go into the school? Can the firearm be left in the vehicle based on the legally OK examples in question 2 of which all my not be correct.

Question 3C. Not Applicable Not Legal in any means by the average person.
If this is OK can the vehicle be left on school property (parking lot) or does the vehicle need to be on public property (street parking). Public Parking is okay

Question 3D.
Is it OK to stay in your vehicle parked on school property to wait for your child to come out of the school building? Or should you wait with your vehicle on a public street when you have your firearm with you.
It would be better to "wait" in a pulic parking area however I think you would be okay if you were "picking up"



Question 4 - Schools and Field Trips
IC 35-47-9-2 states the following:
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

Question 4A.
Does section2.2 mean you are breaking the law if school ABC (where your child attends) goes to Zoo XYZ and you accompany your child as a chaperone and bring your firearm with you to the Zoo? Yes you are breaking the law. According to the law it would be illeagl for you to go to the Zoo and some other school just happens to be there. School law is not defined very well in Indiana.

Question 4B.
What occurs if you take your child and/or family to Zoo XYZ on your own, not knowing that school ABC (where your child attends) or some other school is also at the zoo on the same day? Are you breaking the law then since the Zoo is being used by the school for a school function (field trip)? Again to the letter of the law I would think you were breaking it. Case Law would proably be used to prevail here though.


Question 5 – Concealed or Open Carry
Having an Indiana gun license does it allow you to carry your firearm in open carry mode meaning it is displayed for anyone to see in the same fashion that police officers carry their firearms? This is correct. OC or CC is both acceptable in most parts of the state.


Question 6 – Can I shoot a raccoon, possum, rats, other small wild animals on my property? I do not know the answer to this one.

[jediagh]

Thanks quiggly!

One last 1 for you
Question 4C.
Can I go into a church (place of worship) on a Sunday with my handgun if that church also has a school on the same property? Or would the “gun free zone” apply since the church is on the school property.

I think the answer is NO GUN since the church is on the property.

Does anyone know of an attorney in the NW Indiana area that could LEGALLY answer these question. I looked in the phone book and there area slew of ATTYs and the section for criminal law all talked about DUIs, Criminal Acts, etc.. Noting specific to guns. I'm sure any one of them could answer these if they took the time but has anyone every used any of the ATTYs in my area?

Thanks all.

[quiggly]

-

Originally Posted by jediagh

Thanks quiggly!

One last 1 for you
Question 4C.
Can I go into a church (place of worship) on a Sunday with my handgun if that church also has a school on the same property? Or would the “gun free zone” apply since the church is on the school property.

That would also be a big no because of the school IMHO.

Does anyone know of an attorney in the NW Indiana area that could LEGALLY answer these question. I looked in the phone book and there area slew of ATTYs and the section for criminal law all talked about DUIs, Criminal Acts, etc.. Noting specific to guns. I'm sure any one of them could answer these if they took the time but has anyone every used any of the ATTYs in my area?

Again get Bryan Ciyou's book. He is an attorney and this book plus some reasonable logic, okay maybe not so reasonable because it is law, will give you pretty solid answers. I am sure he would also be glad to consult with you regarding this. There are also a few lawyers that post on this site that may be willing to give you some "real" advice. Read some of the old posts and watch this forum and soon, you to will be willing to spout your opinions like a whale with one lung.... Do whales even have lungs? Doh.... don't want to start a whale thread.

[jediagh]

Thanks!
Which book should I get first? Can't afford to get both right now. =/
Need to work some more OT.

ps.
For the ATTY's reading this I am willing to pay if you prefer. Just want to make sure and have piece of mind that I'm not breaking any laws and become a criminal of a victimless crime.

Don't personally see how a GUN FREE school zone is going to help anyone other than the bad gun. And the law on school xyz and zoo abc when you are also there is just crazy! How the heck are you suppose to know when schol xyz will go to <<insert your place here>>.

[Scutter01]

Originally Posted by jediagh

Thanks!
Which book should I get first? Can't afford to get both right now. =/
Need to work some more OT.

The second edition really builds on the first, but if you can only get one, get the second. Both should be available in your local library as well.

[quiggly]

I have only read through one. "Indiana Handgun Law".

The laws are much more convoluted then even this. City's can have there own ordinances for shooting and carrying. Some have firearms bans at parks others don't. You can carry at State Parks but not if you they are run by the Army Corps of Engineers. and on and on and on.

This you will find is the problem with laws. They have to put more laws around them to make them lawful and close loopholes.

There are a bunch of good people on this forum and some work with the politicians and legislators to try to make things better.

The way to get things changed is to get involved by correspondence with the people that make these laws. Get to know your State Representatives. Send letters, go to meet them, etc.

We all will agree it is difficult to know all of these laws, and unfortunately the burden is on you to make sure your able to exercise your rights.

Good Luck.