Holding a Carry Event? Have a "Legal Observer" Attend

[mk2ja]

I read a blog post this evening that suggested that activists who want to limit the chance of getting in trouble for recording an event—especially if it includes the possibility of interaction with law enforcement who do not want you to be doing what you are doing—become a "legal observer" before you go.

We have seen many reports of law enforcement around the country giving citizens with cameras or tape recorders a hard time. If you want to attend an activism-driven event, show up as a legal observer—shirt, hat, and everything—so that if LEO starts to fuss about your cameras, you can make it clear that you are not a participant, just a witness.

This can protect the individual as well as the participants from LEO trouble. The author also notes that you can often contact the ACLU to request they send a legal observer to attend if you so desire.

Here's a link to the full blog post (it is short):
Activism Photographers: Become Legal Observers | Arm your Mind for Liberty


@Mods — I think this might be a good idea for a sticky in the Events section. I just didn't want to post it there since it doesn't fit the rules for that section as-is.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I honestly don't think that will make any different other than making some poor soul wear a funny hat and t-shirt.

Just speaking honestly

 

[Prometheus]

The tshirt and hat are lame and will stick you in the mix. It's like a CCW badge.

The idea of someone not participating is sound. If you have a dozen people oc'ing and someone NOT oc'ing and recording, that is a sound move.

Some points to make would be dont have your observer assist you with anything or hanging out with you, arm in arm all buddy buddy. Have them behave like a third party would.

 

[mk2ja]

The tshirt and hat are lame and will stick you in the mix. It's like a CCW badge.

The idea of someone not participating is sound. If you have a dozen people oc'ing and someone NOT oc'ing and recording, that is a sound move.

Some points to make would be dont have your observer assist you with anything or hanging out with you, arm in arm all buddy buddy. Have them behave like a third party would.

Exactly, that's kinda the point. Have one person act like they aren't involved at all…like they are merely there to see what's going on and document it.

I hadn't heard of a legal observer before, but I got the impression from the blog post that it might be something recognizable by LEOs as something the ACLU frequently does.

Anyway, I just thought it was a good idea.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

Legal Observer Training Manual by the National Lawyers Guild:

http://wisconsinwave.org/sites/default/files/NLG%20Legal%20Observer%20Manual.pdf

 

[HeadlessRoland]

sorry, I don't play dress up or ask permission to do things a Free man does. what is this supposed to do make you feel good? or is it supposed to make the police not be suspicious of you? What is the malfunction?

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

sorry, I don't play dress up or ask permission to do things a Free man does. what is this supposed to do make you feel good? or is it supposed to make the police not be suspicious of you? What is the malfunction?

Quoted from the link I posted above:

The primary role of the Legal Observer is to be the eyes and ears of the legal team--to observe and record incidents and the activities of law enforcement in relation to the demonstrators. This includes documenting, for example, any arrest, use of force, intimidating display of force, denial of access to public spaces like parks and sidewalks, and any other behavior on the part of law enforcement that appears to restrict demonstrators’ ability to express their political views. This documentation needs to be done in a thorough and professional manner, so that lawyers representing arrestees or bringing an action against the police generally will be able to objectively evaluate the constitutionality of government conduct. Information gathered by Legal Observers has contributed to an extremely successful track record in defending and advancing the rights of demonstrators, including in criminal trials and several major lawsuits against Federal and local governments for their unconstitutional actions.

The presence of Legal Observers serves as a deterrent to unconstitutional behavior by law enforcement during a demonstration. Police officers are often deterred from engaging in unconstitutional activity when their actions are being documented.

 

[Bill B]

Two different things going on here.
One is the National Lawyers Guild "legal observer" program, which appears to be fairly well coordinated for large events
Two is the OP saying "designate some one as a legal observer to protect yourself"
Personally, I don't think that either is really necessary. In Indiana there is no statute against recording in public, so why wouldn't someone that is a part of a demonstration record?
And I will be you that the ACLU or National Lawyers Guild won't touch any demonstration that they don't agree with, regardless of what they claim.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

. In Indiana there is statute against recording in public, so why wouldn't someone that is a part of a demonstration record?

Do you mean there is NO statute against recording in public?

 

[Rookie]

There IS or ISN'T a statute?

 

[ryknoll3]

Isn't.

 

[Westside]

I am willing to bet a large amount of money that the next phrase out of this gentleman's mouth was "Don't taze me Bro!!!"

 

[mk2ja]

sorry, I don't play dress up or ask permission to do things a Free man does. what is this supposed to do make you feel good? or is it supposed to make the police not be suspicious of you? What is the malfunction?

Quoted from the link I posted above:

The primary role of the Legal Observer is to be the eyes and ears of the legal team--to observe and record incidents and the activities of law enforcement in relation to the demonstrators. This includes documenting, for example, any arrest, use of force, intimidating display of force, denial of access to public spaces like parks and sidewalks, and any other behavior on the part of law enforcement that appears to restrict demonstrators’ ability to express their political views. This documentation needs to be done in a thorough and professional manner, so that lawyers representing arrestees or bringing an action against the police generally will be able to objectively evaluate the constitutionality of government conduct. Information gathered by Legal Observers has contributed to an extremely successful track record in defending and advancing the rights of demonstrators, including in criminal trials and several major lawsuits against Federal and local governments for their unconstitutional actions.

The presence of Legal Observers serves as a deterrent to unconstitutional behavior by law enforcement during a demonstration. Police officers are often deterred from engaging in unconstitutional activity when their actions are being documented.

Yep. The idea is, if there is going to be something going on that could possibly result in LEOs behaving in inappropriate ways, then it might be a good idea to have a person there who isn't necessarily "associated" with the "activists" but who can serve as a legal witness.

Those words are in quotes because if you merely attend a rally, a protest, an educational walk, or such, whether you are participating or not, you may be pulled into a mess. For extreme examples of being pulled into something, consider the way people get drawn into flash mob scenarios or riots, though obviously you wouldn't wear your bright green shirt if it was an unplanned mob attack. You get the point, though.

This is definitely NOT anything to be considered as "asking permission" to do something. It is not something you do just to feel good. The police may or may not leave you alone, but at least there is a chance that a band of LEOs getting out of hand might be documented by somebody "who is not a part of the protest." The point is merely for that person to appear to be a bystander.

Two different things going on here.
One is the National Lawyers Guild "legal observer" program, which appears to be fairly well coordinated for large events
Two is the OP saying "designate some one as a legal observer to protect yourself"
Personally, I don't think that either is really necessary. In Indiana there is statute against recording in public, so why wouldn't someone that is a part of a demonstration record?
And I will be you that the ACLU or National Lawyers Guild won't touch any demonstration that they don't agree with, regardless of what they claim.

Whether you designate somebody from your group to be an "outside observer" or whether you actually get a true outside observer, in some situations, it may prove to be useful to have that kind of documentation.

Of course, there is no reason that those participating couldn't also record. But I've read a few reports where the cameramen were asked to put away their cameras while the LEOs were talking with them. In theory, a person who appears to merely be a bystander, or perhaps even a complete outsider who doesn't even really want to support the cause but is there for the money, might be left alone or might not be asked to turn off his camera. That would then allow those IN the protest/rally/demonstration to comply if they would like to show some "good will" to the LEOs, since that might help things to go more smoothly.

It was just a suggestion.

It doesn't have to be a gun rally either. It could be a Lemonade Day event or something like that, too. There's plenty of stuff where it could be useful.

 

[eldirector]

Why not just wear a shirt with "MEDIA" on it?

Between Indiana's "record about anything" non-laws, and the fact that every random blogger is now a media person, you should be able to point your camera about anywhere.

If you fear the misbehaving public or LE during your event, nothing will keep them in line like the threat of media exposure.

This "legal observer" thing just seems.....odd. Maybe in a no-recording state?

 

[96firephoenix]

so all of a sudden, the first amendment (press) only applies if you're wearing some ugly ass hat?

 

[Bill B]

Do you mean there is NO statute against recording in public?

Thanks. That is correct.

 

[lashicoN]

so all of a sudden, the first amendment (press) only applies if you're wearing some ugly ass hat?

Would that shock you? The Second Amendment doesn't apply at all. Can you list any Amendment that is followed by our government as it should be? Maybe this one...

Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

For now, anyway.

 

[RockofStrength]

Would that shock you? The Second Amendment doesn't apply at all. Can you list any Amendment that is followed by our government as it should be? Maybe this one...

Amendment III

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

For now, anyway.

 

[melensdad]

I've organized and hosted about a dozen Open Carry "cigar nights" in 2 different cities, each has been attended by 20 to 40 people. Never had an issue with LEO confrontations, civilian complaints or anything else.

Why have an observer when none is needed?

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Not to be the fly in the ointment but are the police magically not going to whip out the baton and kneecap you if you are wearing a shirt and everyone else around you is raging or marching? I doubt this would be the case. More likely the police would do nothing if they were already doing nothing about it, or bust you upside the head if that's what they were already doing. I doubt that a t shirt has anything to do with anything. Besides, if you want to live in a Free Republic then you must behave like it is a Free Republic. Doing anything else is giving in to Tyranny.