Newtown Calls for Armed School Officers

[Meezer]

The Newtown Board of Education wants more armed police officers in the towns four elementary schools after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary last month.


Newtown Calls for Armed School Officers | NBC Connecticut

 

[Sarge470]

While I agree that armed officers in schools is a great idea, paying for them is something that people should understand. Whether it's hiring returning veterans (as many have suggested), security contractors, or additional police officers, there is a price tag attached...salaries, benefits, uniforms & equipment, training, liability insurance, statutory enforcement authority, etc. are all a part of the big picture. If the taxpayers within that school district or municipality have a full understanding of the costs involved, that's great. The real debate will erupt when the city presents its case to the public for additional tax revenues to cover the resulting costs.

 

[Meezer]

While I agree that armed officers in schools is a great idea, paying for them is something that people should understand. Whether it's hiring returning veterans (as many have suggested), security contractors, or additional police officers, there is a price tag attached...salaries, benefits, uniforms & equipment, training, liability insurance, statutory enforcement authority, etc. are all a part of the big picture. If the taxpayers within that school district or municipality have a full understanding of the costs involved, that's great. The real debate will erupt when the city presents its case to the public for additional tax revenues to cover the resulting costs.

Which is why CCW by some teachers & Administrators is an inexpensive solution. They are already on the payroll.

 

[thatgtrguy]

Which is why CCW by some teachers & Administrators is an inexpensive solution. They are already on the payroll.

If we're going to have people armed in school. I want them to be highly trained pros. Not just any old CCW holder who may or may not keep their cool when the firefight starts.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

If we're going to have people armed in school. I want them to be highly trained pros. Not just any old CCW holder who may or may not keep their cool when the firefight starts.

Don't go to a mall then... one of us "any old CCW" holders might just be there.

And thanks for the insult.



Just curious - do you carry? If so, why? After all, you might not keep your cool when the firefight starts...

Edit: May I suggest that when you are looking for "pro's " for your children's school - you might want to contact the highly trained professionals at the NYPD.... just sayin'

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Which is why CCW by some teachers & Administrators is an inexpensive solution. They are already on the payroll.

Simply allow them to do what the rest of us do. Have the freedom to protect themselves and others as needed.

 

[nucular]

I would agree that I would want them to have some amount of recurring training. I have a more vested interest in the guards at my kids' school than I do the average ccw. That being said, I would gladly pay for my own training if I were a teacher at the school or they offered the option to parents.

 

[RockofStrength]

If we're going to have people armed in school. I want them to be highly trained pros. Not just any old CCW holder who may or may not keep their cool when the firefight starts.

So...why are we sending in cops?

 

[Sarge470]

Programmer, I don't know that GTR meant to insult anyone, but my experience with teacher leads me to believe conclude that they are predominantly women who have been heavily influenced by the liberal mind-set that permeates the education industry. If you could find teachers who are willing to learn the skills and have the warrior mind-set to engage a threat effectively, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, I believe school districts tend to hire people who do NOT possess the aggressive nature required for a violent response to an active shooter incident.

 

[kludge]

Well...

... a predominantly female/liberal teacher standing in the doorway with her handgun willing to take bullets for the kids she stuffed into closets beats standing there without one waiting and hoping some "highly trained" person gets there in time...

... maybe we can even convince her (and the parents of the kids behind her) that at a time like that, bravely pulling the trigger for her kids is preferable to just bravely standing there taking bullets.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

If we're going to have people armed in school. I want them to be highly trained pros. Not just any old CCW holder who may or may not keep their cool when the firefight starts.

just read where trained police officers shoot the wrong people 11% of the time, where the average CCW person shoots the wrong people 2% of the time, not saying dont use off duty police officers , just saying i wouildnt count the rest of us out.

 

[Mark 1911]

It's a first step. At least those in authority are admitting that some form of armed security is needed to protect our children. I don't know that cops are the necessarily the right approach, but I think that is a better approach than having no armed personnel at all. I would rather see armed citizens working on a volunteer basis, with training, whose function as armed security is also recognized by the police. So that in the event of a shooting, the security personnel do not become the mistaken target of police arriving on the scene.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Programmer, I don't know that GTR meant to insult anyone, but my experience with teacher leads me to believe conclude that they are predominantly women who have been heavily influenced by the liberal mind-set that permeates the education industry. If you could find teachers who are willing to learn the skills and have the warrior mind-set to engage a threat effectively, that would be ideal. Unfortunately, I believe school districts tend to hire people who do NOT possess the aggressive nature required for a violent response to an active shooter incident.

Fair enough, I guess - but there are two prevailing myths that we need to get rid of:
1) The average LTCH holder would go crazy and hose down the the entire building with gunfire
2) You need police to handle them dangerous guns dontcha know.

Both are pure iguana droppings.... and very dangerous MYTHS. THAT was my problem with what GTR said.

If you don't trust me with a concealed pistol on a school campus - why the hell would you trust me in a mall or other crowded public place?

I agree that the education industry leans heavily against such folks - that said - I learned something when my High School aged daughter had a problem with a stalker. A number of teachers (both male and female) rose to the occasion and went above and beyond the call of duty. This prevented a massive issue and I will be forever grateful to them. In every school there are such folks. And if armed, they would rise to the occasion in the event of the unthinkable happening. Maybe my experience there gives me a bit more confidence that such folks exist in every school. May not be the majority. But they exist.

 

[Sarge470]

One of my sergeants had a discussion about school security with the principal of his daughter's school, during which the principal stated that he "would die for those kids," to which Kurt replied, "that's great, but would you KILL for them?" The principal had a real tough time with that, because the thought of taking violent action was so far outside the realm of his experiences. Besides, the idea of "taking bullets" in defense of the kids seems a little counterproductive...the focus should be on "delivering effective fire" toward the assailant, who experience tells us is a coward that selects his targets based upon their vulnerability. If I met a teacher who had the intestinal fortitude to arm up and receive the training, I'd gladly spring for the ammo required to achieve the level of skill required to save the lives of the students, while ending that of the bad guy.

 

[Sarge470]

A friend and ILEA classmate of mine has made this proposal, and I love it...Doug's a good guy who isn't afraid to buck tradition if he believes it will help:

Armed teachers would be special deputies

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

One of my sergeants had a discussion about school security with the principal of his daughter's school, during which the principal stated that he "would die for those kids," to which Kurt replied, "that's great, but would you KILL for them?" The principal had a real tough time with that, because the thought of taking violent action was so far outside the realm of his experiences. Besides, the idea of "taking bullets" in defense of the kids seems a little counterproductive...the focus should be on "delivering effective fire" toward the assailant, who experience tells us is a coward that selects his targets based upon their vulnerability. If I met a teacher who had the intestinal fortitude to arm up and receive the training, I'd gladly spring for the ammo required to achieve the level of skill required to save the lives of the students, while ending that of the bad guy.

On this, sir, we totally agree. And my experience was at the high school level. High School teachers being a decidedly different demographic than say elementary school teachers.

Edit - I have to also agree with Skull Daddy's point above - far too many people are way too quick to count the average citizen out. Also - I'd bet on a janitor before I'd bet on most Principals... My one INGO Principal friend aside, of course...

 

[Sarge470]

AP, we're probably going to agree on fundamental principles more often than not, despite what many people on this forum seem to believe about LEOs. I would suspect that most of us on this board want the same things, but we might go about them in slightly different ways. Speaking for myself, I love seeing armed citizens willing to remain responsible for their own safety and take steps to ensure it; it's the folks who choose a permanent state of helplessness and dependency on others that drive me bonkers.

 

[Fletch]

Homeschoolers can have armed security for the cost of a gun and some ammo.

 

[Sarge470]

Homeschoolers can have armed security for the cost of a gun and some ammo.

 

[Meezer]

If I met a teacher who had the intestinal fortitude to arm up and receive the training, I'd gladly spring for the ammo required to achieve the level of skill required to save the lives of the students, while ending that of the bad guy.

Well, thousands of them have stepped forward already:

Teachers flocking to weapons training classes

Teachers Sign Up For Free Firearms Training | The Colorado Observer

LOCAL NEWS: Hundreds Of Ohio Teachers Sign Up For Free Firearms Training | Praise 1300


Buckeye Battle State: 900 Ohio Teachers Signed Up to Take Upcoming Firearms Course

http://soundcloud.com/karenchan922/bbcnewsday-utah-firearms