Environmentalist Green is the New Commie Red

[5.56'aholic]

Originally Posted by public servant

Here's a bandwagon for you to jump on.

sounds like you already jumped on it, prolly no more room left.

[mrjarrell]

Not much new here. I remember the Greens in Germany. It was common knowledge that they were reds, using environmentalism as their cover. The endgame was always to implement communism in Germany. They had adopted the progressive strategy of the long game. Now they've just done the same here and in other countries. Gore just happens to be their best useful idiot. Their supporters come from all sectors, having fallen for the rhetoric and bad science. Wouldn't surprise me to find one here. They lurk everywhere.

[public servant]

OMG...I think you may be on to something here...

I found unequivocal truth the Pope is a commie.

Is the Pope a Communist?

Walt Disney...

Jim Korkis : Walt Disney and the Communist Threat

Glenn Beck's cover story for his commie activities...

Breaking: Glenn Beck NOT a communist

And Dear God...Benjamin Franklin...

Benjamin Franklin, Communist RUTROW.org

I guess you were correct...there is a commie behind every tree.

WTF ever... Carry on comrades.

[Fletch]

I can't believe I'm engaging the court jester in a serious manner, but here goes...

The crucial difference between a watermelon and "some guy who's concerned about the environment" is their method of implementation.

If you say to me, "use recycled toilet paper, it's not that bad and it helps the environment", that's a positive message with a recommendation for upgrade. I would then say to you "I already use recycled toilet paper, because I agree it's a good idea."

But if you say to me, "government needs to ban all toilet paper that isn't made of recycled paper, and eliminate the ability to choose fancier toilet paper", that's a horse of a different color. Now you're not engaging me, you're dictating to me. I realize that with your pro-authoritarian bent, you probably don't see the difference, but trust me, it's there.

[rambone]

Alright well this has been one of the best debates ever. As long as I'm not being accused of saying an arbitrary word because I don't like something I guess I've made my point. I have researched communism extensively and read many articles and books about it. It does exist. I backed up my statement with relevant writing from credible sources. Nothing but jokes in return.

To clarify, if it matters, I don't consider every environmentalist a communist. I don't consider every communist an environmentalist. Not every person trying to save dolphins is being implicated in this.

But those behind "climate-alarmism," are definitely suspect. Climate-Alarmism is the theory that if we don't shift control of our resources over to Government immediately the world will suffer irreversible damage done by humans. The people who who bring us Cap & Trade, the CO2 tax, etc, are the ones specifically this thread is about. The rest of the tree-huggers are simply useful idiots to a cause they don't fully understand. It was ironic in that "TreeHugger.com" article because some activist was writing about his revelation that the movements are ideologically akin to each other. The key point is that the communist movement has always been about control, and that's what the environmentalist movement is turning into.

[steveh_131]

I'm with Rambone on this one.

It's all about government control. Do you really think that controlling our toilet paper is their endgame, or just one more small tightening of the leash around our necks?

I'm glad somebody will call it what it is.

Oh, and Senator McCarthy was a hero and a patriot. He happened to be right about pretty much all of his accusations. In light of actual history, mocking him just makes you look foolish.

[Fletch]

The main problem as I see it is that most of the environazis are so far to the left that they fundamentally do not believe that the free market works.

Take the low-flow toilet, for example. They forced us into these 1.5 gpf toilets, despite the fact that most of them are pathetic pieces of crap that won't flush all the pieces of crap. Folks actually started smuggling toilets, for God's sake, to get around the restrictions.

I recently finished the wife's bathroom, where we installed an American Standard Champion 4. It is every bit as powerful as the old 4 gpf toilets used to be, but you didn't hear about that from the environazis at the time. All you heard were vague platitudes that "oh, it doesn't make that much difference", despite a lot of evidence to the contrary (having to flush 2 or 3 times to get a real "coiler" to go down).

Their agenda was not to get us to engage with them, to get people to care about the environment, it was simply to demand that we do things their way. If they had led with demonstrations of the effectiveness of certain models of 1.5 gpf toilets, a lot of people would have readily bought them, because most people will do the responsible thing if they believe the costs and benefits are basically the same. Instead we just got told what to do, as always with the unspoken threat of all government edicts: at gunpoint if necessary.

[Disposable Heart]

I agree with Public on one thing: Our tendency to glom onto a buzzword that we have denotations for.

I was called liberal trash by a guy in line at the liquor store because I agreed with a worker there that we should have sales on Sundays. Liberal trash. Exact words. He did have a Buck Ofama shirt, which I did mention to him that I liked his shirt (I really did!). Everything he apparently did not like, he glomed the word "liberal" on.

Bush, the second, was elected on a platform of "family values". Ran a bunch of stuff into the ground. But, we as conservatives or Republicans (I have to be careful, they are different now, sort of how I am a liberal but not a Democrat?) attached ourselves and many many votes (in post election polls) pointed out that we voted him in on "family values". Easy to read bite, and with good connotations.

I was also referred to as a communist because I questioned a guy at a gunstore about his zeal for revolution. I asked him what he would do? He goes on a rant, about organizing folks together, yadayadayada, pull those Dumb-o-crats out of office by force. He asked me what I am going to do. I said I dont believe in armed revolution, much to his dismay. He started on a rant about blood and tree of liberty (add violence or simple images to anything, folks will jump on it, just look at "Change" in the last election). I asked him if he understood the implications, legal and mental, of killing someone. I asked him simply if he understood what his actions would do to our cause right now and even his family. Communist piece of (explitive deleted) was his reply.

We tend to use buzzwords to decribe things we dont like. Not all, but some folks do and it ruins our position. High road debate and conversations using logic can help, but I do not see that anymore. We are about 1 original post, then 5 pages of buzzwords now days. This is just what I have seen, a simple observation. Don't believe me? Look through the politics forum and read.

Yes, there is the issue of using buzzwords. But, there is SOME fact to the words being used. Two sides on this, both are true and have validity. That is why I agree with Public Servant. We have become kneejerk reactionaries (instead of political and logical revolutionaries) that point out problems, yet offer no solutions other than a buzzword filled rant about Obama, or socialism, or liberalism (that is the exact reason I dislike Limbaugh, but like Beck, he offers a solution concept). Organize good thoughts. Organize your speeches. Organize yourself. Intellect backed with intelligence bolstered with the force of God's own thunder. Not hateful speeches/signs coupled with sound byte style intellect. We are MUCH better than that!

[Fletch]

Commie.

(sorry, couldn't resist )

I agree with you that this is a tendency. I disagree that it invalidates the premise that the vast majority of the green movement is at the very least synergistically intertwined with those who promote collectivism in its various forms.

Are there non-leftist greenies? Of course there are, but they are generally identified as "conservationists" as opposed to "environmentalists".

[rambone]

.

Red Lies in Green Clothes

One year after Chernobyl, Mikhail Gorbachev announced the creation of “Green Cross International”, an organisation whose president he is still today. It is fighting for the worldwide adoption of the “Earth Charter”, a document drafted in close cooperation with the Rockefellers. Torsten Mann shows in his new book that the real aim of this charter is promoting world communism under the new “global sustainable community” label.

The Politics of the Environment: Ideas, Activism, Policy

The Greens benefited from the political vacuum on the left of the German party system. The SPD - the leading left-wing political party - shifted to the centre after a series of electoral defeats in the 1950s. As the dominant party in government between 1969 and 1982 it largely eschewed its socialist roots, to the despair of NSM activists. Consequently, in the absence of a communist party the Greens were able to fill the space to the left of the SPD by offering a new home to a sizable constituency of disenfranchised leftists.