The Hillary Hole and how to deal with that stupid lock:

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  • geronimojoe85

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    The Hillary Hole and how to deal with that stupid lock

    We all make bad decisions, think if our exes or our Beanie Baby investment scheme. Sometimes we get an idea in our heads and it stays around like the turd that won't flush. Sometimes we have outside influences that keep trying to push us one way or another and weather good or bad we eventually cave. Gun companies are no different than we are in this regard. Smith and Wesson while under the ownership of the Tomkins cut a deal with the Clinton's and thus the Hillary Hole was born. A bad decision born out of an imagined necessity and baseless fear.

    What is the Hillary Hole?

    The Hillary Hole is to small keyhole in the side of a firearm that is for an internal locking mechanism that renders the gun inoperable, most notably in the side of S&W revolvers:


    Problems with this lock are various, from the principal of the matter to reports of the mechanism engaging itself under heavy recoil.

    Removal of the mechanism is simple and relatively easy. "Do you want to deactivate the safety?" Is a question that is harder to answer than the actual act of removing it. We are all big boys so let's look at it this way. What are the legal ramifications of using a firearm with a deactivated safety in self defense? Is it possible that it could get you bound up in court? We are all adults here proceed at your own risk.

    Again, educate yourself on your laws, and make an informed decision about weather or not you really want to deactivate this lock.


    First step is removal of the grips:


    As you can see there are two different spring assemblies, well start with the N-frame first.

    Remove the side plate screws (in this example we have four screws):



    With a non marring hammer like device tap against the grip portion of the frame until the side plate pops off:


    Remove the side plate and expose the guts:


    Remove the hammer block:



    Remove the main spring strain screw:


    Slide the main spring out of the frame and off of the hammer stirrup:


    Pull the trigger to the rear slightly and remove the hammer:



    The piece of the internal lock that interfaces with the hammer:


    This is where the lock interfaces on the hammer:


    Removal of this small piece is as simple as pulling it and is spring out of the gun:


    Bye bye internal lock:



    The gun can be reassembled in reverse order, and look at that no hole in the side of the frame.


    J Frame:


    Remove the side plate, same as above:





    Place a sophisticated tool in the hole in the mainspring strut, and remove the mainspring:




    Pull the trigger back and slide the hammer out of the frame:



    There's the lock mechanism:


    With your big fat stupid fingers remove it from the frame:


    Reassemble in reverse order.


    Now after reports of lock failure S&W did change the springs so that they would not engage during recoil if even the heaviest .500 magnum. I personally have not witnessed any failures on any of mine, so removing the lock is really up to you. Also S&W has begun producing certain guns without the lock entirely, and I believe they've seen the error on their ways. Hopefully soon they'll drop the lock entirely.
     

    1911ly

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    Great job with explanation and pictures! The lock is the only thing I hate about my J frame. I have been tempted to remove it too. If I do I will be back to this thread.
     

    hrearden

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    This is a GREAT idea for a thread. Ive never had a problem with SW revolver with the lock for precisely this reason. Everybody talks about "pre lock" when a lock model can easily become one without and be a great useable piece.
     

    dboz

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    Greenwood
    So I assume that this leaves a large open hole where the lock previously resided? Anyone experience an excess amount of junk / pocket lint catching up in said hole?
     

    printcraft

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    I've done it several times, it is pretty straight forward.
    As far as the hole in the frame, I actually removed the part, soldered the hole closed in the part, painted to match and reinstalled.
    The locking tab inside is the part that needs to come out.
    There is a guy out there that actually makes plugs that install in the hole.

    REMEMBER: This is not removing a safety on the gun!
    This is simply removing an internal storage trigger lock.
    Same as a clamp on trigger lock, a clamp on trigger lock is not a gun safety.
     
    Last edited:

    BehindBlueI's

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    Everybody talks about "pre lock" when a lock model can easily become one without and be a great useable piece.

    No, it becomes a lock model with the lock removed. Removing the lock doesn't remove the hole, and while there are little button things that you can put it in, it will never look as clean and as aesthetically pleasing as a pre-lock S&W.
     

    Twangbanger

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    No, it becomes a lock model with the lock removed. Removing the lock doesn't remove the hole, and while there are little button things that you can put it in, it will never look as clean and as aesthetically pleasing as a pre-lock S&W.

    Ah, yes...you old phartes pulling your "more desirable" well-used 1972 tackle box gun out of the safe, and trying to charge the same price as a new one, need have no fear. The hole is still there, and your $650 "bumpity bumpity bump" ad can still adorn the classifieds, and be dredged up at regular intervals like a bad penny, as before. Carry on...

    (PS - BBI, you left out the other half of the "twin scourge," MIM parts. MIM parts! You're lucky the S&W forum mod doesn't cross over and hunt you down for this. "If there is one thing in this world I hate, Private Pyle, it's MIM parts!" I feel like I need to wash my mouth out with Life Buoy, just saying it).
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Removing the lock like I have above keeps the hole filled.


    See, no hole.

    Let's see the other side.

    And just to be clear, I'm not disparaging your work or your post. Both are excellent. I'm simply responding to the post about this making it a pre-lock.
     
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    BehindBlueI's

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    Ah, yes...you old phartes pulling your "more desirable" well-used 1972 tackle box gun out of the safe, and trying to charge the same price as a new one, need have no fear. The hole is still there, and your $650 "bumpity bumpity bump" ad can still adorn the classifieds, and be dredged up at regular intervals like a bad penny, as before. Carry on...

    (PS - BBI, you left out the other half of the "twin scourge," MIM parts. MIM parts! You're lucky the S&W forum mod doesn't cross over and hunt you down for this. "If there is one thing in this world I hate, Private Pyle, it's MIM parts!" I feel like I need to wash my mouth out with Life Buoy, just saying it).

    Yeah, no idea what you're talking about. I just prefer the looks of the cleaner no-hole revolvers. If they had to have a keyhole, even on the back on the hammer where Taurus put it would have been better than the side plate.

    I currently only own Ruger revolvers, though. I find the roll mark less ugly than the hole. I'm really hoping the new Match Champion doesn't have it.
     

    geronimojoe85

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    Let's see the other side.

    And just to be clear, I'm not disparaging your work or your post. Both are excellent. I'm simply responding to the post about this making it a pre-lock.

    Here's the left:


    The right:


    The only thing deactivating the lock does is deactivate the lock. It does not do anything else like improve the trigger or make it more accurate or get you respect at the range. It will still be a modern S&W revolver with MIM parts. Now as far as MIM parts go I have yet to have a MIM part fail on me on any brand which uses MIM parts. That being said I prefer case hardened steel when I can get it. So performing the steps I showed does not turn it into a pre-lock gun, and the new guns made with MIM parts are not pre-lock guns. The golden age of hand fitted craftsmanship is deader than disco, baby.
     

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    geronimojoe85

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    What is interesting is when you look at the hammer and trigger of the "classic" model 22, they look like case hardened parts.
    It appears that S&W tried to make the parts look like case hardened parts but they are as MIM'd as it gets.
     

    Sainte

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    Can you just plug that hole with a cigar?


    oh....wait, that's a different Clinton and a different hole.............carry on......
     
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