Making replacement springs?

[mjsnook]

I am in need of a few trigger return springs for a couple of H&R 922 revolvers that I am trying to put back together. I have one of them but it is almost broken too and the original configuration is not available anywhere that I can find. It looks like it would be simple enough to form into the correct shape but I am not sure how to temper it or get them to have the correct "spinginess".

Any help that anyone could offer would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sloughfoot]

If is flat steel, I have made new ones out of a feeler gauge. For wound springs, I go to the hardware store.

 

[mjsnook]

It's a solid round spring. I will try to post a picture.

 

[Squirt239]

Havlin's Firearms Finishing

 

[mjsnook]

Thanks, Squirt239. I will give them a call.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

What's the diameter of the wire, I make springs all the time for the 1919a4 semis and we use piano wire for it. I may have some the right size on hand, you may also be able to get it at an ACE Hardware, let me know if your interested.

 

[mjsnook]

Diameter of the wire is .0425" or 3/64" I am interested in anyone helping me out. Would like to have about a dozen made up.

 

[ghitch75]

look here....half way down.....

Springs for GUNSMITH KITS General Purpose

 

[CountryBoy19]

As mentioned above, piano wire or music wire is a generally recognized term for "hardened, tempered spring wire". You can buy it in coils, rolls, and straightened sticks/lengths. For coil springs you make a mandrel and coil it on a lathe/drill-pres etc. There is a little bit of an art to it but often with only a few "scrapped ones" you can get one that will function. I've made my own custom springs for many purposes including old Singer sewing-machines, random household items that need a new spring, and custom springs for firearms mods that I've done. Music wire, especially in smaller sizes, is relatively easy to work with and it's super cheap. If that wire is 1/16" or under it should be a breeze to make that spring with 2 pairs of needle-nose pliers.

 

[Squirt239]

SUPER Trigger Spring, Replacement, Small Frame (Flat) Gun Parts | 268290 | Numrich Gun Parts

 

[30calmachinegunner]

look here....half way down.....

Springs for GUNSMITH KITS General Purpose

Those springs are twice as thick then needs


This spring looks different then his, but close
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/pub/ProductImage/267160.jpg



learn how to bend/ make your own

 

[ghitch75]

Those springs are twice as thick then needs


This spring looks different then his, but close
http://www.gunpartscorp.com/pub/ProductImage/267160.jpg



learn how to bend/ make your own

i have used them in H&R i have and other.....

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Your best bet is to find spring steel wire of or very close to that diameter. A little one way or the other probably won't make much difference for that application. The wire will normally come in the annealed state, so bending to match those dimensions should not be too difficult. You'll probably find that over bending just slightly will be needed, as you heat treat it will tend to loosen just a bit. Once you have it to the correct shape, heat it slowly to red hot, then quench quickly. An oil quench should work well with this. At this point, your new spring will be very brittle. Drop it, bump it, or drop it, and it will most likely shatter. Carefully polish the spring with fine emery until it's back to the white. Then heat, very slowly, watching the color change from straw, through purple, to the first blue color you see. This must be done slowly and evenly so that you get an even temper. [The Belgian makers used to use only tallow candles to do this, superstition dictating that the tallow gave better luck when tempering. I believe it was more likely due to the lower flame temp giving a more even heat, but who knows?] When you reach the blue color, quench again in oil. test the new spring, it should work well. If it's a little soft, harden , polish and temper again, stopping at purple or straw. If it's still too brittle, harden again, but this time temper through the first blue, and your colors will repeat again, stop at straw and check, purple, or blue again, until you have what you need. Usually the first blue works well for wire springs, but this is somewhat heavy so you may have to experiment.
luck,
Jim

 

[mjsnook]

Thanks guys...I will definitely give some of this a try. I guess first things first, I will try to find some material the correct size or darn close to it and see what I can come up with.

 

[30calmachinegunner]

I have some .049 music wire, you can have a couple feet if you want to meet me, I work on the north side of Kokomo and get off at 2:30, PM me if you want to meet

 

[CountryBoy19]

Your best bet is to find spring steel wire of or very close to that diameter. A little one way or the other probably won't make much difference for that application. The wire will normally come in the annealed state, so bending to match those dimensions should not be too difficult. You'll probably find that over bending just slightly will be needed, as you heat treat it will tend to loosen just a bit. Once you have it to the correct shape, heat it slowly to red hot, then quench quickly. An oil quench should work well with this. At this point, your new spring will be very brittle. Drop it, bump it, or drop it, and it will most likely shatter. Carefully polish the spring with fine emery until it's back to the white. Then heat, very slowly, watching the color change from straw, through purple, to the first blue color you see. This must be done slowly and evenly so that you get an even temper. [The Belgian makers used to use only tallow candles to do this, superstition dictating that the tallow gave better luck when tempering. I believe it was more likely due to the lower flame temp giving a more even heat, but who knows?] When you reach the blue color, quench again in oil. test the new spring, it should work well. If it's a little soft, harden , polish and temper again, stopping at purple or straw. If it's still too brittle, harden again, but this time temper through the first blue, and your colors will repeat again, stop at straw and check, purple, or blue again, until you have what you need. Usually the first blue works well for wire springs, but this is somewhat heavy so you may have to experiment.
luck,
Jim

Seems like a lot of work and "guessing" when "music wire" is readily available... not to mention it's much harder to find annealed spring-wire that you heat-treat yourself. Where do you get yours?

 

[ghitch75]

Seems like a lot of work and "guessing" when "music wire" is readily available... not to mention it's much harder to find annealed spring-wire that you heat-treat yourself. Where do you get yours?

i was thinking the same thing....30 to 50 an hour that spring would be 150 buc's....go to gunspring's and buy it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CathyInBlue]

Thank you for that lesson in spring-making, Jim. I honestly appreciate it.

Just this past Tuesday in Print Reading class, our professor showed this How It's Made video on springs as we went through the chapter on the representation of springs on blueprints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRwa8msCbP0

I'd like to build up a set of spring making dies and jigs so that I could do essentially what the OP wants and what Jim described, but I'd just use a small electronicly controlled kiln for my annealing and tempering needs.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Thank you for that lesson in spring-making, Jim. I honestly appreciate it.

Just this past Tuesday in Print Reading class, our professor showed this How It's Made video on springs as we went through the chapter on the representation of springs on blueprints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRwa8msCbP0

I'd like to build up a set of spring making dies and jigs so that I could do essentially what the OP wants and what Jim described, but I'd just use a small electronicly controlled kiln for my annealing and tempering needs.

Note: That video said nothing about annealing, heat-treating, or tempering. A large portion of those springs are made of pre-hardened materials and because of the loading and type of duty they will be used in they don't need any tempering after forming. Very few springs actually need to be heat-treated after forming, most can be made of pre-hard music wire and formed in the hardened state. I've been doing this for years; you guys are making this much more complicated than it has to be...

Also note that "dies and jigs" are different from every spring you make. It isn't economical to you make dies and jigs and create create a complicated forming process if you're only making a few springs. 2 pairs of pliers are all that's needed. For longer coils it is easier to use something that rotates (to wind the coil) but it isn't necessary.

 

[JimfromTrafalgar]

Sorry, I thought you wanted to properly make a spring. If not, much of what's been mentioned may work fine for something as simple as a trigger return. You should keep a couple of things in mind however. Any material you use which has the properties of a spring, no matter how you bend it, will start wanting to go back to original shape. That's what makes it a spring. So to shape it and keep it shaped, you have to anneal to form well, harden to create a new memory, then temper to allow it to move. This seems like a good candidate for started the learning process. it's not all that critical concerning exact strength, and it's not extra light nor very heavy material. The first blue temper, usually works for coil type springs, in fact usually for all, but I've seen times.,.. Anyway, CathyInBlue is right, a small furnace works well for this type of thing, but most don't have that, and flame applied slowly is a method that's been in use for centuries, and we all have access to a flame source. I find that the whole deal is quicker and simpler using flame, and save my furnaces for larger items, contolled heat soak, and the controlled annealing required for things like knife blade steel, etc. There is another means of temper that's been used for a very long time, and a lot of old timers who lacked the equipment or training used it to some success I'm told. Put the hardened spring in a small can of old dirty oil, light it, and when the fire goes out you have a tempered spring. Having a very good person teaching me, some level of knowledge on metal treating and on burning temps of different oils, etc., I never bothered trying. Too many potential variables for my tastes, but I've heard it works? Anyway, I've played with piano wire and such, but was never satisfied unless I went through the three proper stages. Even winding the stuff for a coil spring requires some allowance for spring back to get the right O.D., so you usually start with a smaller mandrel than needed, wind it, then wait and see how much larger it grows as some memory returns. Lather, rinse, repeat, until you have the O.D. you need. Anneal the stuff, wrap it to the correct O.D. and number of coils, then harden to build that memory, and it doesn't change on you. It's funactually, and you learn a feel for things. Anyway. You'll find I offer advice on what I know. Sometimes stipulate that it's to a certain point, haven't tried beyond that, should work based upon what I've done that may be similar, or something I've been told will work but haven't tried, but I won't just make it up as I go. From that point, you are of course free to do as you please. I am a stickler for doing it the right way, if that's at all possible. Just years of playing around with refrigeration theory, and getting miffed as the jack-legs of the world screw up someone's equipment.
Again FWIW,
Jim