Supervise an 80% lower finish?

[Johnnn]

Does / can anyone within reason of Garrett/Fort Wayne lend some eyes on to finishing at least one maybe 3 ar lowers? I currently have no tools and no lowers. Both can change relatively quickly. But if someone already has the jigs and router and would be gracious enough to invite me to use their tools/equipment (if I'm correct I have to be the one doing all of the labor and running of the machine - correct me if wrong) I would gladly grab someone an extra lower for them to complete and let me watch. If the use of another's tools/ equipment is in violation please also someone let me know. Too much of a gray area with me being partially uneducated about doing lowers myself. Thanks everyone

 

[Squirt239]

Does / can anyone within reason of Garrett/Fort Wayne lend some eyes on to finishing at least one maybe 3 ar lowers? I currently have no tools and no lowers. Both can change relatively quickly. But if someone already has the jigs and router and would be gracious enough to invite me to use their tools/equipment (if I'm correct I have to be the one doing all of the labor and running of the machine - correct me if wrong) I would gladly grab someone an extra lower for them to complete and let me watch. If the use of another's tools/ equipment is in violation please also someone let me know. Too much of a gray area with me being partially uneducated about doing lowers myself. Thanks everyone

Lending tools, and /or equipment no longer makes it a DIY project, thus making it illegal to do.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Completely illegal. Sorry you're going to have to buy the jigs/tools...
supervision, hints & tips, etc is not a problem so far as I can tell...

 

[FWJK]

Why is it illegal to borrow tools?

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Why is it illegal to borrow tools?

Cuz ATF says so...
https://www.atf.gov/file/11711/download

 

[Fargo]

Why is it illegal to borrow tools?

I'm not sure lending basic non-business tools is actually prohibited, but here is what is being referred to.

ATF Shuts Down Completion of 80% Lowers - Gunfighter Tactical

 

[RobbyMaQ]

It's sort of self explanatory... proceed at your own risk.

Use of Manufacturing Machines, Tools, or Equipment
An FFL or unlicensed machine shop may also desire to make available its machinery (e.g., a computer numeric control or “CNC” machine), tools, or equipment to individuals who bring in raw materials, blanks, unfinished frames or receivers and/or other firearm parts for the purpose of creating operable firearms. Under the instruction or supervision of the FFL or unlicensed machine shop, the customers would initiate and/or manipulate the machinery, tools, or equipment to complete the frame or receiver, or entire weapon. The FFL or unlicensed machine shop would typically charge a fee for such activity, or receive some other form of compensation or benefit. This activity may occur either at a fixed premises, such as a machine shop, or a temporary location, such as a gun show or event.
A business (including an association or society) may not avoid the manufacturing license, marking, and recordkeeping requirements under the GCA simply by allowing individuals to initiate or manipulate a CNC machine, or to use machinery, tools, or equipment under its dominion or control to perform manufacturing processes on blanks, unfinished frames or receivers, or incomplete weapons. In these cases, the business controls access to, and use of, its machinery, tools, and equipment. Following manufacture, the business “distributes” a firearm when it returns or otherwise disposes a finished frame or receiver, or complete weapon to its customer. Such individuals or entities are, therefore, “engaged in the business” of manufacturing firearms even though unlicensed individuals may have assisted them in the manufacturing process.
Held, any person (including any corporation or other legal entity) engaged in the business of performing machining, molding, casting, forging, printing (additive manufacturing) or other manufacturing process to create a firearm frame or receiver, or to make a frame or receiver suitable for use as part of a “weapon ... which will or is designed to or may readily be converted
to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive,” i.e., a “firearm,” must be licensed as a manufacturer under the GCA; identify (mark) any such firearm; and maintain required
manufacturer’s records.

Again... you can test the waters all you wish. Can it be read as a friend (not in the above business) loans tools is acceptable? Maybe. Depends on how you define build parties and the owner's equipment... are they a 'society'? But the gist is, that it is illegal. Proceed at your own risk.

 

[FWJK]

Thanks for taking the time to come back explain guys. Much appreciated!

 

[Johnnn]

Well I sure as heck am not gonna go buy all that stuff to make a couple blanks complete. Cost & time vs price difference and also not screwing it up isn't cost effective. Even though I am a generation or two behind most of you old timers, I like to do stuff myself but if I can't even lend the tools out then there is no point for me to have the means to pump out lowers. I just wanted one to engrave some hilarious stuff on (I've seen examples tehe) but I digress. I appreciate the information from everyone.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

LOL. It all depends on your priorities... Age has little to do with it, IMO. Some do hit a point in experience where they might wish to have a 'one of a kind' piece. I'm not convinced that it is limited to older folks by any stretch.
There are manufacturers who offer lowers with minimal engravings... But if you just want a gun to shoot (Much like yourself I am guessing?), then there are cheaper alternatives... I've taken advantage of them in the past, I assure you.
Little beats an SBR with my own name, avatar, and Pants/Pantless/Bacon selector markings in my small world (your world will differ I am sure). And every rifle I've built before, or after, will not come close... and will have been much cheaper in terms of cost. Performance will likely be the same across the board.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm not sure lending basic non-business tools is actually prohibited, but here is what is being referred to.

ATF Shuts Down Completion of 80% Lowers - Gunfighter Tactical

While I am not providing legal advise, I agree. Unless there is something I am not seeing, the ATF refers to businesses (including associations and societies0 who, for a fee are allowing people to use their machines under their supervisions.

Sounds different from borrowing some things from a friend or acquaintance who is not a business, for purely personal use with no fee.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

OK, I redact my statement slightly...
If I recall there was come concerns over 'including an association or society' and the definition thereof. Friend loaning a tool, maybe allowed...
INGO build party? I wouldn't risk it.

 

[wulfensteinster]

my brother in law ran into this conundrum. he bought a small cnc for 1600 bucks and was going charge people to use it. now he is screwed. unless he can sell the machine, he will have paid 1680 for a single lower receiver!