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  1. #21
    Grandmaster Hookeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by actaeon277 View Post
    Well, I guess I'm the only idiot.
    Maybe it was the way I was raised.
    Never trust the safety.
    Always use your 4 rules.

    I was at the range with the boy scouts shooting 22s. One of the Moms comes up, somethings wrong with her new single shot. Couldn't figure it out. Didn't want to mess up a brand new rifle. Told her to take it to her husband who was running the shotgun side.
    She came back grinnin. Said it was the safety was on. Why didn't I figure that out? Told her that in over 30 years of weapons, I'd only used a safety when I was a kid, and a supervisor type said I had to.

    So, never really had to deal with them.
    If your gun goes off on its own, you have other problems to deal with.
    WTH?

    Just because you don't trust a safety that doesn't mean you don't use it .
    Branded sexist. Labelled racist. Want it clearer? Check the mirror.

  2. #22
    Grandmaster actaeon277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bapak2ja View Post
    I moved from a G26 to a Taurus 24/7 in part because I wanted the thumb safety. I was concerned that returning the G26 to a leather IWB holster could result in a negligent discharge if the holster was old and folded in on the trigger. It actually happened in a case that was posted on INGO. The man returned his G26 to his holster and shot himself in the hip. Since I know that IWB holsters do fold in, especially with age, I decided an external thumb safety was a good idea.

    If your holster is that worn, it should be replaced.
    I know we aren't made of money, but people pay a LOT of money for a gun, then skimp on holster. If your magazine was failing, you'd replace or fix it.

    I'm not ripping on anyone. Use a safety or not. Don't matter to me.
    "Una salus victis nullam sperare salutem."

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  3. #23
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    My carry gun is a xd45 with thumb safety that I did a grip chop to just so I could have a compact, high capacity 45 that had a thumb safety on it. I never have an issue with dropping the safety as I draw, but I'm starting to understand how that can be a struggle for some people. I guess it all comes down to preference, and I'd prefer a G19 that had one, lol.

  4. #24
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    Brick Wall ATM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddy12b View Post
    My carry gun is a xd45 with thumb safety...
    The XD is a good example of what I was talking about.

    It was designed to not need a manual safety but it was offered later as an option for those who prefer to have one regardless.


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  5. #25
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    I love the safety on my sr9, not only does it function like a 1911 but it also lockes the slide in place when holstering in a tight holster.

  6. #26
    Grandmaster Bunnykid68's Avatar
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    I am all the safety I need. Well, I am lazy too.
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  7. #27
    Plinker
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddy12b View Post
    I've never really understood why people don't like having a thumb safety on a pistol, especially when it comes to conceiled carry.

    I know some will say it's just one more mechanical device that can fail, but safeties been working fine on 1911's, M9's, M16's, and AK's for years. I don't see why a person wouldn't want the added protection against a mistaken discharge that a thumb safety allows.

    I understand that a good holster should keep the trigger from getting snagged on anything, but only protects while it's in the holster. It's just seems to me like a thumb safety is so easy to disengage that it's almost rediculous not to have one.

    It's just something that I get hung up on every time I start thinking about a G19, XD9, or whatever else. Personally I just don't get why it's not a more common feature on carry pistols.

    Any thoughts?
    First, to separate pistols and longarms: Rifles and shotguns are generally not "dropsafe" like modern pistols. Also, their triggers are exposed all the time, not safely tucked away in a holster when not in use. A long arm slung over the shoulder is subject to all manner of things getting in the trigger guard and causing unwanted discharges. Finally, a long arm, especially for non-military use, is generally not an emergency use item that must be instantaneously ready for use like a citizen's or LEO's pistol is.

    A pistol, however, is an emergency action item, particularly for the citizen or LEO -- it must be ready for reactive use pretty darn quick, and it must go bang on short notice. Anything that interferes with this requirement should be subject to great scrutiny as to its actual worth.

    A manual safety like the slide/thumb safety or the backstrap grip is not an aid to the actual use of the pistol. It is a crutch at best, a concession to minimal or poor training, an attempt to protect the user from his own bad decision, namely, pulling the trigger when he didn't mean to. Military and Police agencies that choose to spend as little effort training their officers often introduce abortions like "NY Triggers" or even adding thumb safeties, but these are basically mechanical substitutes for competence, and meant to help shield the agency from the liability of NDs, rather than help the officer in a gun fight.

    Time spent learning the manipulation of the thumb safety under the intense pressure of reacting to an attack is probably better spent learning to keep the finger off the trigger until you really need it, which is a truly needed skill with all firearms. Following this rule, keeping the laded pistol in the holster on the body when it is not needed, and in the hand with the finger in register (and following the other three rules) when it is, is pretty much all that is required to be "safe."

    Those who have participated in repeated force-on-force drills with realistic copies of service pistols like the 1911 and the Glock, where they are actually under the pressure of getting "shot" and are blasting off the X with all kinds of body gyrations to keep from getting shot, do find out that in fact switching off the thumb safety under stress can get fumbled even with repeated practice. They also find out that it is not all that unusual to fumble the entire grip to some degree, to not have the desired "master grip" but to have the pistol twisted in the hand, to have the tail of the shirt wrapped around it, to find out the trigger finger is out of position and the "emotional" finger gets used to fire the pistol, to grip the pistol upside down because the primary arm is out of commission and the shooter had to reach across and draw with the other arm...etc. All these things make operating the thumb safety or even the backstrap safety difficult, when what is really needed is a gun that goes bang RIGHT NOW. Yes, the thumb safety works fine on 1911s, but the operator, under pressure, often does not do so well.

    Gaston Glock hit a home run with his pistol design, perhaps because he was not a gun guy to begin with, but took a good look at what was actually required. I think the little widget safety on the trigger is ridiculous, and the grip (at least on the 17) is a bit large and does not have the best angle, but overall, it is a superb design. Reliable, rugged, pull-trigger-go-bang-lotsa-times, just a peachy gun.

    I personally carry a Browning Hi Power, which does indeed have an ambi thumb safety on it. I love the Hi Power, but I consider the thumb safety to be a definite drawback to its use as a fighting pistol. I have spent many hours practicing NOT fumbling the switch, have a callous on my thumb from doing so, in fact EVERY time I pick the pistol up, out of the nightstand or wherever, the I operate the safety to try to preclude the chance that I will "forget" in a fight. I will click it back on if not needed, but it always comes off when I pick it up.

    I have even thought about just leaving it off ( know others that have) or even securing it in the "off" position. After all, it has the same 5 lb trigger pull my Glock has. I hesitate to simply leave it off because I may find at the worst possible time that it may have been inadvertently pushed on (just like I occasionally find it inadvertently pushed off), and the fact that unlike a striker fired pistol, the hammer is at full cock, so if it is jarred hard enough to slip, it will most certainly fire.

    If I didn't have such an investment in training and practice time, holsters, spare pistols, magazines, airsoft replicas, red gun replicas, and all the other accoutrements, I would go to a Glock 17 or 19. And I may yet. If I ever win the Powerball, I am going to have someone make me striker-fired Hi Power with no thumb safety, and of course no mag disconnect. It is such a sleek, concealable yet high capacity pistol with terrific ergonomics, I can't quite force myself to abandon it.

    If, when I was starting out, I knew then what I know now, I would have gone with a Glock early on and never looked back.

    So the question to me is not why do people not want thumb safeties, the question is why would anyone want one?

  8. #28
    Plinker GoBoilers!'s Avatar
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    Ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alamo View Post

    A manual safety like the slide/thumb safety or the backstrap grip is not an aid to the actual use of the pistol. It is a crutch at best, a concession to minimal or poor training, an attempt to protect the user from his own bad decision, namely, pulling the trigger when he didn't mean to. Military and Police agencies that choose to spend as little effort training their officers often introduce abortions like "NY Triggers" or even adding thumb safeties, but these are basically mechanical substitutes for competence, and meant to help shield the agency from the liability of NDs, rather than help the officer in a gun fight.
    What can I say... Haters gonna hate!

    I prefer manual safeties on my ccw pistols, even though some of them lack them. I pracitce sweeping the safety as I draw or pick up gun, but I think it keeps me and those around me safer. I know of several people who have experienced ND's that a manual safety would have prevented but I don't know of anyone who has been attacked and failed to fire their gun due to fumbling with a manual safety.
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  9. #29
    Grandmaster U.S. Patriot's Avatar
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    To me it's an unnecessary step. Training is important, but, training induces only so much stress. When your adrenaline dumps, you may forget to disengage the safety, which could cost you your life. I like to draw ready to fire, not having to worry about if I left the safety on. I carry pistols that are DA/SA equipped with a de-cocker, or DAO. Just like anything else, it's my personal prfrence.

  10. #30
    Grandmaster U.S. Patriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoBoilers! View Post
    What can I say... Haters gonna hate!

    I prefer manual safeties on my ccw pistols, even though some of them lack them. I pracitce sweeping the safety as I draw or pick up gun, but I think it keeps me and those around me safer. I know of several people who have experienced ND's that a manual safety would have prevented but I don't know of anyone who has been attacked and failed to fire their gun due to fumbling with a manual safety.
    ___
    GB!
    How many people do you know that have been attacked?

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