.22 vs. .45 Argument - Video

[Grunt]

This video argues that the .22 caliber is more effective than a .45. Does the video present a convincing argument?

Video: http://www.wnd.com/wnd_video/for-self-defense-22-beats-45/#ooid=oyeDRqNDrFKPGmOLhjdibttWn2uk21w4

This video came from the website World Net Daily: www.wnd.com

 

[duffman0286]

lol here we go this should be interesting

 

[duffman0286]

but i do agree that you need be able to quickly get off a well aimed second shot for what ever caliber you choose... and i do think some people choose a round that to powerful for self defense not all some can handle a 45 just fine... i pick the 9mm (i dont own a 380) mainly because recoil is fairly light and they normally have a larger magazines.... with good jacketed hollow point ammo even a 380 is very effective and i do carry a 9mak from time to time... i can handle a 45 just fine but in a situation where lives are at risk i still stay true to the 9mm because if a following shot is needed i need to make it quickly and make sure its on target.... we are accountable for each round we fire i dont want that to be a foe

 

[Oliver]

I don't like a few things the guy has to say. I mean, I really don't think about price when I decide to defend my life. I also don't want to have to think about whether or not my attacker is wearing a "heavy jacket". I don't want the person that I believe is trying to kill me to have the opportunity to decide whether or not to continue with his aggression after I shoot him. I will make that choice for them.

 

[TopDog]

I will never forget this. When I was stationed in TN... A old man shot an intruder in his apartment 7 times with a .22. The attacker took all the shots in the upper body if I remember correctly, yet managed to storm off pissed but not fatally wounded. Later caught by police. He basically reported that he just gave up attacking because the old man would not stop shooting him, not because he was in that much pain. What factors in, shot placement, pentration (clothing worn), attacker condition (on drugs etc.).

What I got from this is what I was taught. Use the caliber and gun that you are most proficient with. If its a .22 then so be it. I personally will not carry anything less than a 9mm. Because I also subscribe to the school of big bores bust better. When your attacker is whacked out on drugs you want to do as much lethal damage as quickly as possible. That is why I train with what I carry. Train Train Train when the organic material hits the oscillating... you will fall back on your training.

 

[rustygunner]

Alrighty then. He did have a very valid point about hitting the target. I'm not switching my EDC from .45ACP to 22lr anytime soon though.

 

[gunowner930]

He does make a valid point regarding lower recoil=faster follow up shots. This is one advatnage that smaller cartridges have, however when is enough enough? The .22 LR simply doesn't create enough energy if it does hit the target for me to be comfortable with carrying a .22 LR chambered pistol. Thick coats? I guess even he admits that the .22 LR might not be the best option in an Indiana winter. If you carry a .22 LR chambered pistol, make it as effective as possible and more power to you, but when weighing the pros and cons of the .22 LR compared to the .45 ACP or 9 mm for the purpose of a carrying a defensive pistol, I just can't see how the .22 LR comes out on top in any universe.

 

[Double T]

If this were true PD'S would be carrying buckmark's instead of glocks.

 

[Robjps]

Is he even legit?

This isn't the zombie apoc headshots arent the only thing that counts. I can unload a 9mm or 45acp into center mass of something rather quickly.

 

[VERT]

My main arguement against rimfire for personal defense is that it is rimfire. My .22s (and the ammunition itself) are just not as reliable as my .40s. Although I have always thought a double action .22 revolver could be a choice for some people in certain situations. Generally I would not recommend rimfire for anything other then cheap practice.

I don't agree with this whole idea of head shots. (except for zombies or other things the Israeli's might use a suppressed .22) Also don't see a reason to have a shotgun without a stock or dress in black. But otherwise an entertaining video.

 

[JetGirl]

As always, carrying the biggest caliber that you can accurately handle and aiming for "center of mass" is the best policy.
A .22 is better than a pointy stick, but if you don't have arthritic hands or other factors keeping you from larger calibers...get the largest caliber you can accurately handle and aim for center of mass.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I don't know who originally described it this way but I watched a James Yeager video where he talked about lethality versus incapacitating hits. A .22LR to the jugular will be a lethal wound but it may not stop the attacker from actually doing what it was that caused you to shoot him in the first place.

A 9mm or .45 caliber hit to the hip may not be lethal, but because of the damage that larger/heavier bullet can do it will incapacitate or immobilize the attacker. 9mm does let you min/max everything giving you a heavy bullet, high capacity and greater odds for an incapacitating and/or lethal hit over anything smaller like a .22LR. Proper shot placement does stack the odds of an incapacitating hit in your favor, though.

 

[cosermann]

Just think of all the money we could save switching all our LEOs and military to .22 LR. Call your representative to get the ball rolling!

The video is so full of fail it's hilarious. Lots of myths. I'm not convinced the man has any idea what he's talking about (or can even think logically).

 

[cosermann]

I just could not resist including a graph from the "study" (the validity of which I won't even get into) referenced by, "Molotov Mitchell" (they guy in the video). Here it is. Does it support the his conclusions? I mean, he referenced this "study" as proof the .22 is a great SD round.

Excerpt from the "study" itself:
"Some people will look at this data and say "He's telling us all to carry .22s". That's not true. Although this study showed that the percentages of people stopped with one shot are similar between almost all handgun cartridges, there's more to the story. Take a look at two numbers: the percentage of people who did not stop (no matter how many rounds were fired into them) and the one-shot-stop percentage. The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a failure rate that was roughly double that of the higher caliber rounds."

"What I believe that my numbers show is that in the majority of shootings, the person shot merely gives up without being truly incapacitated by the bullet. In such an event, almost any bullet will perform admirably. If you want to be prepared to deal with someone who won't give up so easily, or you want to be able to have good performance even after shooting through an intermediate barrier, I would skip carrying the "mouse gun" .22s, .25s and .32s."

 

[nfranke]

he talked about training to get that head shot when your attacker is wearing a heavy coat, the same training would allow you to place more shots on target quicker with bigger rounds and that video just took part of my life that i will never get back

 

[VERT]

Excerpt from the "study" itself:
"Some people will look at this data and say "He's telling us all to carry .22s". That's not true. Although this study showed that the percentages of people stopped with one shot are similar between almost all handgun cartridges, there's more to the story. Take a look at two numbers: the percentage of people who did not stop (no matter how many rounds were fired into them) and the one-shot-stop percentage. The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a failure rate that was roughly double that of the higher caliber rounds."

"What I believe that my numbers show is that in the majority of shootings, the person shot merely gives up without being truly incapacitated by the bullet. In such an event, almost any bullet will perform admirably. If you want to be prepared to deal with someone who won't give up so easily, or you want to be able to have good performance even after shooting through an intermediate barrier, I would skip carrying the "mouse gun" .22s, .25s and .32s."

Nice excerpt. Thanks for sharing. Makes a lot of sense. Some people are just going to give up regardless once the victim fights back. What it comes down to is that for personal defense we either have to 1) remove the criminals will to fight or 2) remove their ability. Any cartridge will work for the first but something bigger is in order for the second.

 

[lucky4034]

I think it has a lot more to do with the gun and the victim handling it personally....

I absolutely HATE the triggers on LCP, P3at and the like.... I'm sure with a lot of practice I could get used to it, but I'm not sure I would want to trust my life with that style of trigger... especially for follow up shots.

On the flip side of that, I think with a Mark III I could easily follow a moving human target and put the majority of my shots center mass.

I'm pretty comfortable with my sr9c tho.... to me I think being comfortable with the weapon and training are the most valuable equations regardless of the caliber.

 

[VN Vet]

I agree with much that was said in the video. Shot placement and ease of repeating the shot is paramount in stopping an attacker. You do not always have to kill an intruder or any BG as that matter.

BTW, I do not carrry a 22 as a CDW. But, I do have one at home that I have handy.

Vv

 

[Redskinsfan]

I enjoyed his video and the points he was making about the 22 being much easier to recover from and that many shooters would practice much more with the 22 versus the 45.

However, the graphs do not support his other statements, not at all as I can see.

Terry

 

[cosermann]

There are far too many incorrect points in that video to give him any credibility whatsoever. I'll just mention two from yesterday's memory, since I don't want to waste any more of my life watching it again.

1. His statement about head shots shows a lack of understanding about the dynamics of defensive situations. Anyone who's done any force on force training (or been in a violent encounter) knows from experience that delivering a head shot, under stress, when everyone is moving - is far from easy or certain.

2. His statement at the end about how you can't miss with a shotgun. Seriously? At typical defensive distances (say 21 ish ft and under), a shotgun must be aimed like any other gun. The shot spread is around 1-4" in that range - easy to miss. It's not a fire hose.

Noticed many such ignorant statements throughout the video, but I hope these suffice.