Defeating Teeth Talk on 5.7 and Body Armour

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  • Kirk Freeman

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    At any gun shop, show, internet chatroom or range there is always much nonsense spouted about the new hotness that is a .22mag, the 5.7mm.

    The 5.7 is just a .22 mag, barring the speciality AP rounds, it will not zip through a tank or shoot through a school or whatever nonsense one hears on television or the gun shop.

    Again, the 5.7 is just a .22mag, nothing more.

    The Firearms Blog did the unthinkable in the gun culture--they went out and shot stuff with the 5.7 and as men learn by seeing, here are the results:

    5.7x28mm Versus Body Armor - The Firearm Blog
     
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    Cole46845

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    Did you read it? It sounds to me like the restricted ammo will go thru a vest and helmet. Will a .22mag do that. I am a five-seven owner too and have heard the claims
     

    Manatee

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    5.7and.22Mag2.jpg
     

    HoughMade

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    Well, a 5.7x28 bullet from a handgun is several hundred fps faster than a .22 WMR from a handgun, but a 5.7x28 from a handgun is about as fast as a .22 WMR from a rifle so....yes, they are exactly the same.
     

    NHT3

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    Not trying to hijack your thread and I know I've said this before but the 22 TCM is a dynamite cartridge, considerably more powerful than the 5.7.. I have no idea why it hasn't become more popular. RI is not promoting it is the only thing I can figure.. Same helmet material in the vid above with a hole clean through, shot from a 5" barrel.. Notice absence of recoil when the lady is shooting.
    Vid is yours truly and the infamous MrGreatshot.
    A look at the Rock Island Armory 1911 TCM with penatration test - YouTube

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
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    NRA Certified pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] --[/FONT]1911 Mechanic
     

    giovani

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    From the articles I have read 22mag = 1400 fps with a 40 gr bullet from a 6 in revolver while 5.7 runs about 1600 also 40gr from a 5 inch auto.
    Most people quote the 5.7 at the factory 2200 fps rating but this is from the ps 90 carbine.
     

    gglass

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    The SS190 version of the 5.7mm cartridge uses a 31-grain, steel jacketed, steel tipped, aluminum core bullet. It is capable of 2,350fps and it can defeat level IIIA body armor at 200 meters.

    Too bad you can't find this stuff in stores any more. :(
     

    Mr Evilwrench

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    .22mag is rimfire while 5.7x28 is centerfire and reloadable. Depending on how into it you are, you could make the equivalent of the SS190 and load your own. Or get an AR, maybe in pistol form, and fire the more readily available M855, and hurt the bad guy better. 5.7 still seems to me a solution in search of its problem.
     

    Disposable Heart

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    Not trying to hijack your thread and I know I've said this before but the 22 TCM is a dynamite cartridge, considerably more powerful than the 5.7.. I have no idea why it hasn't become more popular. RI is not promoting it is the only thing I can figure.. Same helmet material in the vid above with a hole clean through, shot from a 5" barrel.. Notice absence of recoil when the lady is shooting.
    Vid is yours truly and the infamous MrGreatshot.
    A look at the Rock Island Armory 1911 TCM with penatration test - YouTube

    NRA Life Member-- GSSF member
    Gunsite graduate --Certified Glock armorer
    NRA Certified pistol instructor --1911 Mechanic

    Oh, various reasons:
    Only one firm is making ammo for it right now in a "dependable" fashion: Armscorp (foreign). There is some guy on the 1911 boards that is making it with customer's brass, but not on a regular fashion.
    The gun: Single or double stack 1911 only, no poly-wonders. Now, that being said, I would love to see an EAA witness longslide chambered in this, that or a G34.

    On the upside, someone did a calibrated and denimed gel shot with the only factory JHPSP round available from Armscorp. It expanded well and penetrated past 12". VERY interesting. I would even pay for an autoglass test at this point.

    Also, a bonded soft point or HP that could expand at the velocities these weapons generate would be stellar!

    If anyone is interested: Rocky Mountain Reloading has the pulled SS190 projectiles (32gr steel "penetrator" with copper jacket and aluminum core) for sale. Some guys on Arfcom loaded em into .223. They suck in the accuracy department, but overall, cool. I bought some for loading .223 (to be a punk), they are literally almost as long as an SS-109 projectile of almost double the weight in grains!
     
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    Oh, various reasons:Only one firm is making ammo for it right now in a "dependable" fashion: Armscorp (foreign). There is some guy on the 1911 boards that is making it with customer's brass, but not on a regular fashion.The gun: Single or double stack 1911 only, no poly-wonders. Now, that being said, I would love to see an EAA witness longslide chambered in this, that or a G34.On the upside, someone did a calibrated and denimed gel shot with the only factory JHPSP round available from Armscorp. It expanded well and penetrated past 12". VERY interesting. I would even pay for an autoglass test at this point.Also, a bonded soft point or HP that could expand at the velocities these weapons generate would be stellar!If anyone is interested: Rocky Mountain Reloading has the pulled SS190 projectiles (32gr steel "penetrator" with copper jacket and aluminum core) for sale. Some guys on Arfcom loaded em into .223. They suck in the accuracy department, but overall, cool. I bought some for loading .223 (to be a punk), they are literally almost as long as an SS-109 projectile of almost double the weight in grains!

    DH - Armscor's ammo plant is not foreign.... It's in Montana as I recall.. The also have a shop in Nevada. The company itself is based in the Phillipines, and sells mucho guns worldwide - that's true. Just clarifying that a bit.

    Also one thing that's a bit restrictive on the TCM reloads is the length of the projectile itself. Can't use a long bullet, due to overall length issues. That might be problematic with the Rocky Mountain stuff you mentioned, but I don't know for sure..

    All that said, if you want to put together a ballistic test of one - let me know. I'll bring the guns and you're welcome to provide the auto glass. Better yet talk to Charlie - he's got both the midsize and fullsize, in case the extra 3/4 of an inch makes a speed diff.

    I know this - they are a lot of fun - and having shot them a bit, I dang sure would rather be on the wrong side of a 9mm than the wrong side of a 22 TCM. Just my opinion, but it's an educated one... from being on the right side of 'em! :D

    I agree with you - a poly-wog that used 22 TCM would be a big boost to the adoption rate. And I'm enough of a newb to ask this question - are there licensing issues? I.E. could Federal or Aguila or somebody just start putting out their own brass and loading the stuff? or is it proprietary somehow? Don't know enough about how the legal sid eof that works
     
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    Mr Evilwrench

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    I think you'd have to be very selective with your projectiles and loadings to get good expansion and penetration. Mostly they just drill a hole through. Recall, that terrorist at Ft Hood primarily used an FN FiveseveN in his "workplace violence" rampage, and it didn't work that well.

    The projectile/load for the SS190 is probably like a lot of things; you can't buy them whole, but you can get the stuff to make your own, which then puts you in legal limbo. In other words, never shoot someone with it, or your life will become interesting, but not in a good way. My son gets an erection for the SP90, but it's a good thing he doesn't have his own money.

    I have a windshield that got cracked in half before I could install it. Otherwise, it's ok. If you want it, PM, you can have it.
     

    Leo

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    We used to have that ballistic performance years ago in a sweet (but hard to reload) .22 Hornet. I think the .22 K Hornet still has a little edge, but I do not have data on it.

    I have heard a lot of silly talk about the 5.7, like it is good for 1000 yards, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, etc. It is a nice shooting round and it can do something the .22 Hornet could not do, ie: feed through a semi automatic. Yes there were some revolvers chambered in .22 Hornet.
     

    rw496

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    I shot an FN 5.7 w/ blue tips at a level IIA vest wrapped around a dummy (not me) at about 10 yards. First round did not penetrate, second did. Not surprising once the vest was compromised with the first shot. After owning one I was not real impressed and sold it to someone else who paid for the hype. Up here they are often referred to as "baby AK pistols". Like a lot of street slang, I have no idea what the hell they are talking about.
     
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