Original vs. Clone: Do you get what you pay for?

[Terrible Ted]

Hi guys, noob here looking for some opinions as I try to narrow down my choices for a first firearm. Although my questions are specific to CZ clones, I thought opening up the topic to include any handgun platforms that have spawned clones would lead to some interesting discussion.

I'm looking for a good quality semi-auto platform to learn the fundamentals of firearm safety, operation, and maintenance. I've been reading up on several models for months now, and I'm leaning heavily toward the CZ 75 design, probably compact size. Intended use would be practice/training, home defense, and perhaps carry in the future. I've read many positive reviews about the Canik/Tristar clones (and others), but there are also some reviews that give me concern. There were some recent reports on the CZ Forum about Caniks/Tristars that were shipped out with mismatched sights. The reply one poster got from the importer (Tristar) was basically, "We don't stock the correct size to fix your problem. You can send it in to have our gunsmiths 'look at it' (no guarantee of resolving the issue). Try aftermarket sights." I have also seen reviews concerning variances in trigger weight and smoothness, ranging from great to below average. Compatibility of OEM and aftermarket parts is another aspect that interests me.

What I'm wondering is, over the life of a firearm, is the money saved buying a copy over the real thing worth the difference in quality, customer service, availability of accessories, and resale value? For CZ clones, the difference in price difference can be between $100-300. That would easily cover a nice holster, some ammo, and perhaps other accessories (or CGW upgrades). On the other hand, if I happen to get one with quality issues, that "extra" money could disappear rather quickly. If anyone has experience with CZs and their clones, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I would especially like to hear from anyone who has had personal experience with warranty issues/customer service from CZ and any of the clone importers.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I had a friend who shot an EAA Witness competitively several years back, so it was used hard and he never had any complaints concerning the gun other than the SOB who stole it.

I have not heard much more recently particularly concerning any changes that may affect quality. Resale may not be as much an issue as you may think. If you find a quality gun that fits you well, your children or grandchildren will be the ones to worry about that.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't know anything about the Caniks, so I won't speak to them. When I think "CZ clone" I tend to think of EAA, though.

CZs are one of the best values in handguns out there. They are tough to beat for a steel pistol in their price point. They are built to last, they shoot right, they offer a bajillion accessories and holsters, and they aren't overinflated due to the name or emblem etched on the side. The issues they suffer from are endemic in mass produced firearms, they can use a polish on the trigger and the sights may not be to your liking. Both are easily fixed.

EAA makes a good gun as well, and I've yet to hear an owner complain about how they shoot. There's some folks doing some real fine shooting with a Witness.

The simplest fact is they'll both 99% likely to out shoot and out live you if you take half way decent care of them. There is no wrong answer on this one between EAA and CZ, but I don't think there's a ton of price difference either. Maybe $50 or so? With the Canik, like I said, I don't know so I'll leave that to others to comment on.

 

[BE Mike]

I don't know anything about the Caniks, so I won't speak to them. When I think "CZ clone" I tend to think of EAA, though.

CZs are one of the best values in handguns out there. They are tough to beat for a steel pistol in their price point. They are built to last, they shoot right, they offer a bajillion accessories and holsters, and they aren't overinflated due to the name or emblem etched on the side. The issues they suffer from are endemic in mass produced firearms, they can use a polish on the trigger and the sights may not be to your liking. Both are easily fixed.

EAA makes a good gun as well, and I've yet to hear an owner complain about how they shoot. There's some folks doing some real fine shooting with a Witness.

The simplest fact is they'll both 99% likely to out shoot and out live you if you take half way decent care of them. There is no wrong answer on this one between EAA and CZ, but I don't think there's a ton of price difference either. Maybe $50 or so? With the Canik, like I said, I don't know so I'll leave that to others to comment on.

I didn't think that EAA made any guns, just imported them. Although admittedly, my experience with EAA goes back a long time, I don't have a high opinion of EAA's customer service.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I didn't think that EAA made any guns, just imported them. Although admittedly, my experience with EAA goes back a long time, I don't have a high opinion of EAA's customer service.

You may be right. I think Tanfoglio (Sp?) actually makes the Witness, but they are typically sold as "EAA". If EAA is a parent company or importer, I don't know.

 

[kawtech87]

I didn't think that EAA made any guns, just imported them. .

You may be right. I think Tanfoglio (Sp?) actually makes the Witness, but they are typically sold as "EAA". If EAA is a parent company or importer, I don't know.

This us correct. European American Arms (EAA) is the importer of Tanfoglio pistols. I have read that Tanfoglio also makes the polymer frames for CZ. EAA are some of the better known clones and have a decent rep for reliability but not Customer service Since they didn't make the guns they seem not to care. Also not all CZ aftermarket or factory parts fit and they are harder to find gunsmith to do work on them

Canik are made in Turkey and are also not 100% clones. So not all parts and accessories will work and again will be harder to find a gunsmith for work. But they are also supposed to be some of the best clones for the money you can get. Tristar is Canik BTW just with a different importer.

For best results and for optimum aftermarket and factory support I recommend buying a real deal CZ. I have 3 a full sized a P-01 and a RAMI subcompact.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I think only you can weigh the various factors you put in your post to determine if a CZ clone would be a viable purchase in lieu of the original. I can tell you that I have both an EAA/Tanfoglio Witness Match Elite and a Canik55 Stingray-C. Both have been extremely nice pistols, the Canik is a steal at the price they were going for a few months back (don't know what current price is), and neither is able to use very much of the solid aftermarket support that CZ enjoys. There is a little bit of aftermarket available (Henning's shop for EAA, CGW for Canik), but not much.

 

[kawtech87]

For all info CZ and clone related check out: CZForum.com - Index

There are lots of people on INGO that know a lot about CZs and clones but CZ forum is dedicated to CZ so if anyone knows anything it will on there more than likely already an active topic.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

Some of the CZ "clones" are higher quality than the original. Sphinx comes to mind.

I'm glad I got my CZ75b back in 2004, when they were still cheap. I paid $250 for mine, NIB, from a dealer, at the South Bend gun show. Best bang for my buck I've ever gotten with a firearm.

Before 2000 nobody would buy a CZ. 99% of us gun nuts are Xenophobes who wont ever try anything new, so they languished on dealer shelves. somewhere around 2005 or 2006 they started to media blitz them, and magically everyone who wouldn't have touched a CZ 2 years earlier HAD to have one...

There are a LOT of awesome pistols out there for very little money, but most people who post here are not interested in them, because they don't have the right logo etched on the slide.

 

[88E30M50]

As mentioned above, some of the clones are higher quality than the originals, but you do assume a bit of risk by buying a clone. For example, I bought a CZ 75 Compact a couple of years back. Then, a little while later, I saw an Armalite AR-24K at a local shop. In many ways, it's a better gun than the original CZ. The machine work is fantastic and the trigger geometry is updated allowing the safety to be used hammer up or down. It has an all forged frame and slide and is built like a tank. What's not to like? Well, the sights are standard 3 dot and when I sent an email to Armalite regarding dovetail specs, they said they had no idea and maybe I should contact Sarsilmaz in Turkey where the gun was built. Since the internal parts have been improved, most standard parts for a CZ don't work with it. The grips are specific to this gun and there are zero aftermarket grips for the shorter framed AR-24. The gun comes with two 13 round mags but the grip is shortened so a standard CZ 14 round mag sticks out a ways. The stock mags have extensions on them to provide a full grip.

What did I lose with the AR? Compatibility with some holsters, incompatibility with stock CZ sights, internal upgrade parts and magazines. It's a great gun otherwise and really is built to last. If I were Ok with the sights and this were my only CZ or CZ Clone, I'd be fine. But, by going with a clone, I lost some compatibility with parts and now that I've done some tuning to the original CZ Compact, I really wish I could do the same to the AR.

 

[arthrimus]

I have a Canik55 S-120, the CZ-75B clone that Canik offers. The machining is top notch, and while I don't have a real CZ to compare it to, based on what I've seen in pictures, this gun blows away the real thing in that regard. I have not had it long, but I have yet to have a failure of any kind in the 100 rounds I've put through it. I shoot it better than my Sig p229, which is saying something because my 229 was previously my best shooting handgun.

As for aftermarket support, Generally leather and cloth holsters designed for the CZ-75 will work with these clones, but I have heard that, due to some dimensional differences here and there, kydex and molded plastic holsters may not fit properly. YMMV. I have ordered a pair of checkered cocobolo grips from CZ-custom, which should install nicely with a little fitting. I also have a flat SA trigger on order from Cajun Gun Works. It's probably going to require some modification to fit in this gun, so I will report back with any difficulties I encounter.

Overall I'm quite satisfied with my purchase of a clone. Yes there certainly are advantages to owning the real thing, but for me, the cost savings and availability were enough to sway me to one of the clones.

 

[Tomc1947]

I have a Canik 55 Shark C, chrome. Quite simply, it's a beautiful pistol, functions flawlessly, is every bit as good as a real CZ .

 

[Amishman44]

First...welcome aboard! Second...I'm pretty much an 'original' kinda guy! When it comes to pistols/handguns...I've a big believer in you get what you pay for sort of thing! I have, as have friends, tried to save a few $$ and buy brands such as Taurus, Star, etc. and ended up having the headaches of dealing with warranty repairs, continuing problems, etc.

Long story short, each of us has learned from our mistakes, sold off the cheap stuff, and invested the extra $$ into quality guns...and all of our headaches went away as did the spending of extra $$ trying to figure out what was wrong with the gun! In the 'gun world'...quality will always be worth the extra $$ to get something that's been done right the first time!

I don't own a CZ...but everyone I know who has one loves theirs and says get the original!

 

[Redhorse]

Well, I'm not sure I'm much help on semi-autos, but in regards for revolvers I trust originals/name brand more than non. I'm sure the non-name brand are good, but the quality the S&W and Ruger offer is hard to beat.

 

[wdan5906]

I have a CZ 75B bought new in 2006. As stated before, back when they were an excellent buy at $399.00. Also have a E.A.A. model EA 9. This gun was manufactured in 1992, has a blue steel finish and is an exact copy of a CZ 75. Both guns are excellent shooters. Would not trade either.

 

[rob63]

FWIW, here is the results of my trip to the range today with my Canik S-120. 50 rounds of factory reloads at 7 yards. The only thing I have changed is the grips and, for me, this is about as good as it gets with anything I own. $350 shipped from Bud's. Never had a failure with it and I am happy with how it shoots.
View attachment 30429