Define Handgun accuracy?

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  • NHT3

    Grandmaster
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    I started to jump in to a thread about Kimbers being reliable but decided to put a question out for everyone and not be accused of threadjacking :) In the Kimber thread the discussion turned to accuracy and how much more accurate a Kimber was than a Glock. Exactly how do most people define "accuracy" in a handgun?
    I would argue that a Kimber (or a Wilson Combat) is no more accurate out the box than a Glock. The big difference is the trigger. The less you disturb your sight picture when you press the trigger the more "accurate" the shot will be. A Glock or an M&P can be refined to have a very good trigger but will never have the short, no over travel trigger that good 1911 will have and that affects what I think most people refer to as accuracy. Some would say accuracy involves what the pistol is capable of when the shooter is not in the equation. On a good day a Glock or 1911 will cut 1 ragged hole in a target @ 7 yards in the hands of a good shooter. That is how I judge accuracy, @ 7 yards and possibly some of you are judging it a 100 yards. I guess what I"m saying is my definition of accuracy what I can do at 7 yards. I'm very curious how others define accuracy in a handgun and what you expect or will accept before complaining that you have "equipment" problems.

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]Ruger MK III, M&P & 1911mechanic
    NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] –[/FONT] Certified Glock armorer
     

    chezuki

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    I started to jump in to a thread about Kimbers being reliable but decided to put a question out for everyone and not be accused of threadjacking :) In the Kimber thread the discussion turned to accuracy and how much more accurate a Kimber was than a Glock. Exactly how do most people define "accuracy" in a handgun?
    I would argue that a Kimber (or a Wilson Combat) is no more accurate out the box than a Glock. The big difference is the trigger. The less you disturb your sight picture when you press the trigger the more "accurate" the shot will be. A Glock or an M&P can be refined to have a very good trigger but will never have the short, no over travel trigger that good 1911 will have and that affects what I think most people refer to as accuracy. Some would say accuracy involves what the pistol is capable of when the shooter is not in the equation. On a good day a Glock or 1911 will cut 1 ragged hole in a target @ 7 yards in the hands of a good shooter. That is how I judge accuracy, @ 7 yards and possibly some of you are judging it a 100 yards. I guess what I"m saying is my definition of accuracy what I can do at 7 yards. I'm very curious how others define accuracy in a handgun.

    [FONT=&]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&]-- [/FONT][FONT=&]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&]
    [/FONT]Ruger MK III, M&P & 1911mechanic
    NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&] –[/FONT] Certified Glock armorer

    I think you pretty much nailed it. :yesway:
     

    Mgderf

    Grandmaster
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    May 30, 2009
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    Lafayette
    The subject is too subjective to variables.
    Firearm capabilities, what some might call accuracy, are subjective to EVERYTHING outside of a laboratory.
    If you are talking anything but laboratory conditions then you need to include ALL of the outlying factors.
    These are including, but not limited to,
    condition of said firearm, including how clean it is.
    ammunition used
    atmospheric conditions
    distances to targets
    shooter ability

    If you're talking real-world application, then you simply must include all variables.
    Therein lies the problem.
    What might be a match-grade shooter for you may be completely wrong for me, or vice versa.

    I understand your question, but I'm afraid the answer would be too individualized to make a difference.
    What works for the goose doesn't always work for the gander.
     

    Harleyrider_50

    Shooter
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    Nov 19, 2010
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    So. Indiana
    I started to jump in to a thread about Kimbers being reliable but decided to put a question out for everyone and not be accused of threadjacking :) In the Kimber thread the discussion turned to accuracy and how much more accurate a Kimber was than a Glock. Exactly how do most people define "accuracy" in a handgun?
    I would argue that a Kimber (or a Wilson Combat) is no more accurate out the box than a Glock. The big difference is the trigger. The less you disturb your sight picture when you press the trigger the more "accurate" the shot will be. A Glock or an M&P can be refined to have a very good trigger but will never have the short, no over travel trigger that good 1911 will have and that affects what I think most people refer to as accuracy. Some would say accuracy involves what the pistol is capable of when the shooter is not in the equation. On a good day a Glock or 1911 will cut 1 ragged hole in a target @ 7 yards in the hands of a good shooter. That is how I judge accuracy, @ 7 yards and possibly some of you are judging it a 100 yards. I guess what I"m saying is my definition of accuracy what I can do at 7 yards. I'm very curious how others define accuracy in a handgun and what you expect or will accept before complaining that you have "equipment" problems.

    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]-- [/FONT][FONT=&amp]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]Ruger MK III, M&P & 1911mechanic
    NRA Basic pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] –[/FONT] Certified Glock armorer

    My thoughts on'em ain't about accuracy........they ain't the guns they used ta be.....I jus' said they over-rated.....an' over-hyped......an' OVERpriced, condider'n whut's out'ere ta blow 1500 bux on......:twocents:

    Only 1911 I've got at present......is a Para......stays in'a safe cuzz it's so fook'n heavy.....would'na had'a Glock on a bet, few yrs ago.....BUT.....when I finally wrap'd my brain 'round 1.....an' CARRY'd 1.....much less SHOT it (several, actually....couple'a '30's....a '29....an'a couple'a '27's....)

    No-brainer fer me on a EDC..... :yesway:

    Accuracy fer me......iz jus' whut I tol' at dude in'at thread.....in my late'st post......I don' carry 'ese things ta punch paper.......:):
     

    sloughfoot

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    Apr 17, 2008
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    Huntertown, IN
    My thoughts on'em ain't about accuracy........they ain't the guns they used ta be.....I jus' said they over-rated.....an' over-hyped......an' OVERpriced, condider'n whut's out'ere ta blow 1500 bux on......:twocents:

    Only 1911 I've got at present......is a Para......stays in'a safe cuzz it's so fook'n heavy.....would'na had'a Glock on a bet, few yrs ago.....BUT.....when I finally wrap'd my brain 'round 1.....an' CARRY'd 1.....much less SHOT it (several, actually....couple'a '30's....a '29....an'a couple'a '27's....)

    No-brainer fer me on a EDC..... :yesway:

    Accuracy fer me......iz jus' whut I tol' at dude in'at thread.....in my late'st post......I don' carry 'ese things ta punch paper.......:):
    Is it as tiring to type in your style as it is tiring to read?

    Who the hell talks like this?

    "iz jus' whut I tol'".....WTF? Even the worst public schools don't teach this.

    NEG REP me all you want. I don't think your language is cute. Or decipherable.

    I have been riding Harleys for almost 50 years.
     
    Last edited:

    Contender

    Marksman
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    Mar 11, 2014
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    Lawrence County
    Handgun accuracy for me is 1" at 100 yards or 1 MOA.................for my Scoped Contenders that is.

    Any un-scoped handgun, hitting a pop can at 20 yards, even though I cannot always do that!
     

    chezuki

    Human
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    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,151
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    Behind Bars
    Is it as tiring to type in your style as it is tiring to read?

    Who the hell talks like this?
    It's an OCD thing. He can only post in the online character he's developed. It matches the closet full of Sons of Anarchy apparel. I too found it annoying at first, but now it's just kinda sad. I feel bad for him though, it does look exhausting.
     

    Harleyrider_50

    Shooter
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    10   0   0
    Nov 19, 2010
    3,094
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    So. Indiana
    Handgun accuracy for me is 1" at 100 yards or 1 MOA.................for my Scoped Contenders that is.

    Any un-scoped handgun, hitting a pop can at 20 yards, even though I cannot always do that!

    Had a Encore in .308.........8 out'a 10 in'a drywall bucket-lid at 250 .......was a dead deer in my world.......:yesway:
     

    Harleyrider_50

    Shooter
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    10   0   0
    Nov 19, 2010
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    So. Indiana
    It's an OCD thing. He can only post in the online character he's developed. It matches the closet full of Sons of Anarchy apparel. I too found it annoying at first, but now it's just kinda sad. I feel bad for him though, it does look exhausting.


    :rolleyes:
    Yeeaaah, dude.......whutever you say, huh?.........dunno whut'cha do fer a live'n....desk job prolly.....but can tell ya this......I'm better'n 50......an' yer azz'll be suk'n buttermilk try'n ta stay with me in a day.......:):
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
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    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
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    North of Notre Dame.
    Reliability is far more important that intrinsic accuracy.

    I believe you guys are talking about intrinsic accuracy.

    Agreed. I like to think of it as inherent accuracy vs. practical accuracy. A better trigger is going to give a gun better accuracy for most people, but that doesn't mean that it is any more accurate if you remove the human variables. As to the OP, I like the current standard. What kind of groups will the gun shoot at 25 yards. 7 is arguably more practical for a self defense gun, but IMHO isn't far enough for a true picture.
     

    sloughfoot

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    Apr 17, 2008
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    Agreed. I like to think of it as inherent accuracy vs. practical accuracy. A better trigger is going to give a gun better accuracy for most people, but that doesn't mean that it is any more accurate if you remove the human variables. As to the OP, I like the current standard. What kind of groups will the gun shoot at 25 yards. 7 is arguably more practical for a self defense gun, but IMHO isn't far enough for a true picture.

    I have worked with lots of firearms trainers over the years. I have learned lots, rejected some.

    I cannot wait until you again make me sweat and bleed. I have nothing but respect for you and your abilities.

    Please don't submit me to the language of that other guy. It makes my head hurt. And I want to blubber and cry. Please protect me from him....
     

    dhw9am

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    Dec 13, 2008
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    I think you pretty much nailed it NHT3. I have always wondered why I am amazingly accurate with my Bersa Thunder 380, much more so than my Ruger SR9, friends SW MP, and any Glock I
    have fired. It can't be that the Bersa is a better gun, it is just the way it fits my hand, that enables me to shoot better.
    I think the only way you can really test a pistol, is using a bench rest and somehow eliminating the human factor as much as possible.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    ...I too found it annoying at first, but now it's just kinda sad. I feel bad for him though, it does look exhausting.

    This.

    I wonder if it's as exhausting to type that gibberish as it is to have to skip over it more than once in thread?
     
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