Definition of a Good Shot With a Handgun

[dross]

Okay, these kind of threads are problematic, I know. I'm not looking for "If you can hit what you're aiming at," or any other witticisms. I don't shoot in competition, nor do I plan to. I just want a standard to work toward. So, let me make my questions more precise:

Shooting at less than 1 second per shot, what size group would you shoot at 10 yards if you were an "expert"? What's intermediate? What's just adequate?

Shooting unsupported, what does an expert shoot at 25 yards? (Please spare me the wisdom that I don't need to shoot people 25 yards away) What is reasonably good at 25 yards?

I'm looking for a measuring stick that I can't seem to find.

 

[Bfish]

I think no matter the distance you need to make no larger than fist sized groups, and then shoot as quickly as you can without grouping larger than this... It's not to hard to gauge progress based on this.

I am speaking from a self defense stand point. You get match shooters and those guys that have to hit certain zones or depending on what you are competing in this can vary... However, try shooting fist sized groups no matter how fast you shoot. The better you get the faster you can shoot. I mean if I really take my time at 10 yards can I put a solid hole in the target? Probably, but that is not what we are after (at least for self defense minded thinking) But as you become more and more proficient with making you hits and making them quickly with the first as well as follow ups try shooting and moving, try engaging multiple target, try engaging multiple targets and moving... The list goes on. You can be a good shooter and introduce that and it's like things freeze (look back to one hole in the paper). It seems like there are always limitless ways to turn as to why I think you can't seem to find the measuring stick. You need to just figure out what you want to be able to do. Then work toward the goal(s).

I rambled. To best answer your question, to me keeping fist sized groups is essential. So #1 shoot a fist sized group no matter the distance, then #2 the fast you can do so the better you are. Introducing other things like multiple targets and movement compound on these skills.

Remember that you can't miss fast enough.

 

[Thegeek]

Here's how I gauge myself. I like to use paper plates as targets.... anything that hits the plate is a good shot. That being said, a paper plate is a "kill shot", and my handgun shooting is geared toward defensive practice. 2" group vs 8" group.... dead is dead.

 

[sloughfoot]

I am going to do more research, but Jeff Cooper and Clint Smith always considered a good pistol shot to be able to draw and put a shot into a target in X seconds. On demand and under pressure. I don't believe they worried too much about groups.

I agree with this. The first shot being effective is all that really counts. Modern instructor, Gabe Suarez doesn't concern himself with group size either. His approach includes point shooting while moving rapidly.

I am old, and don't remember perfectly, but I know it has always been something like this. You may be mixing bullseye shooting with the totally different needs of self defense with a handgun.

 

[Bfish]

I read the principles of self defense by Jeff Cooper... I would highly recommend it.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Here's how I gauge myself. I like to use paper plates as targets.... anything that hits the plate is a good shot. That being said, a paper plate is a "kill shot", and my handgun shooting is geared toward defensive practice. 2" group vs 8" group.... dead is dead.

This

 

[Kutnupe14]

Okay, these kind of threads are problematic, I know. I'm not looking for "If you can hit what you're aiming at," or any other witticisms. I don't shoot in competition, nor do I plan to. I just want a standard to work toward. So, let me make my questions more precise:

Shooting at less than 1 second per shot, what size group would you shoot at 10 yards if you were an "expert"? What's intermediate? What's just adequate?

Shooting unsupported, what does an expert shoot at 25 yards? (Please spare me the wisdom that I don't need to shoot people 25 yards away) What is reasonably good at 25 yards?

I'm looking for a measuring stick that I can't seem to find.

At 10 yrds, if you have a sub 5 inch group, I'd be . At 25 yrds, unsupported w/a second between shoots, I'd be impressed with anything within 12 inches

 

[GIJEW]

I think no matter the distance you need to make no larger than fist sized groups, and then shoot as quickly as you can without grouping larger than this... It's not to hard to gauge progress based on this.

I am speaking from a self defense stand point. You get match shooters and those guys that have to hit certain zones or depending on what you are competing in this can vary... However, try shooting fist sized groups no matter how fast you shoot. The better you get the faster you can shoot. I mean if I really take my time at 10 yards can I put a solid hole in the target? Probably, but that is not what we are after (at least for self defense minded thinking) But as you become more and more proficient with making you hits and making them quickly with the first as well as follow ups try shooting and moving, try engaging multiple target, try engaging multiple targets and moving... The list goes on. You can be a good shooter and introduce that and it's like things freeze (look back to one hole in the paper). It seems like there are always limitless ways to turn as to why I think you can't seem to find the measuring stick. You need to just figure out what you want to be able to do. Then work toward the goal(s).

I rambled. To best answer your question, to me keeping fist sized groups is essential. So #1 shoot a fist sized group no matter the distance, then #2 the fast you can do so the better you are. Introducing other things like multiple targets and movement compound on these skills.

Remember that you can't miss fast enough.

Agreed. dross, to keep it interesting, you also can always mix in competition with yourself and see just how small a target or group you can shoot at a given distance and then "raise the bar". Keep challenging yourself in both precise accuracy and speed. I think you're having trouble finding that measuring stick because people are measuring different things. I believe the 10 ring on a 50' reduced bullseye target is a little over an inch diameter, on the other hand IIRC Colonel Cooper said a good shot could--at 7 yds--draw and fire a head shot within 2 seconds.

 

[tk71]

If you can keep it on a 9" paper plate 1 second per shot at 10 yards I would say good. 25 yards all shots on a 12 inch target 1 second per shot good enough.

 

[churchmouse]

Here's how I gauge myself. I like to use paper plates as targets.... anything that hits the plate is a good shot. That being said, a paper plate is a "kill shot", and my handgun shooting is geared toward defensive practice. 2" group vs 8" group.... dead is dead.

Paper plate at 25'.
3 10 rd. mags of .45 ACP

 

[dtkw]

In my best days, I could hit the targets at 25 yards and keep them under 5 inches. Nowadays it more or less 8 inches. I think it's good enough.

 

[churchmouse]

In my best days, I could hit the targets at 25 yards and keep them under 5 inches. Nowadays it more or less 8 inches. I think it's good enough.

Indoors I have issues with my vision and tend to run bigger groups.

Outdoors it is less of an issue but I see the lights are fading.

 

[Kutnupe14]

In my best days, I could hit the targets at 25 yards and keep them under 5 inches. Nowadays it more or less 8 inches. I think it's good enough.

...one handed, with less than a sec between shots? That is seriously some impressive shooting.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

At the range where I shoot, 25 yards is the shortest distance. I've always been a rifle shooter, and when I started shooting pistols, I was lucky to keep most of my shots on a 2' X 2' target at 25 yards. I gotta be honest, after a couple of years, I still fly a few off the paper at 25 yards.

After a few mags with my pistol, I usually switch to the carbine so I can chew out the center of the target and feel better about myself.

 

[churchmouse]

At the range where I shoot, 25 yards is the shortest distance. I've always been a rifle shooter, and when I started shooting pistols, I was lucky to keep most of my shots on a 2' X 2' target at 25 yards. I gotta be honest, after a couple of years, I still fly a few off the paper at 25 yards.

After a few mags with my pistol, I usually switch to the carbine so I can chew out the center of the target and feel better about myself.

WE have always practiced at 25. Then play at 50 with the steel. The kids realize if you can wear out a paper plate at 25 yds. anything up close is cake.

 

[Leadeye]

In handgun range it gets the hose.

 

[dtkw]

...one handed, with less than a sec between shots? That is seriously some impressive shooting.

I was trained by well,,nevermind. I just emptied my magazines at 25 yards in 14 seconds. Two hands.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

WE have always practiced at 25. Then play at 50 with the steel. The kids realize if you can wear out a paper plate at 25 yds. anything up close is cake.

I guess I should just keep practicing. And leave the carbine at home so I'm not tempted to switch.

 

[churchmouse]

I guess I should just keep practicing. And leave the carbine at home so I'm not tempted to switch.

Used to make my kids nuts shooting 25 yds. off hand. Then the steel at 50. Now it is fun to ring the gong at 100. Not every shot but more than you would think with a .45

 

[Trigger Time]

Paper plate at 25'.
3 10 rd. mags of .45 ACP

So 8 yards. Not bad cm. That's a dead plate!!