Flinching

[dross]

I just discovered I have a flinching problem. I've always shot low and to the left. I've been told that's caused by jerking the trigger. Also, it mostly goes away if I shoot with a very relaxed grip and pull the trigger slowly. When I tighten my grip, or shoot fast, it shows up big time. After reading some of Brian Enos's book, I experimented a bit during a dry-fire session. I haven't done that much dry-fire, but decided to really work with it the last few days. What I've discovered is that I can use several different grips, pull the trigger fast, slow, SA or DA, and the sights stay aligned and on target. That's how I figured out I probably have a flinch rather than a trigger pull problem.

Two questions:

Does my logic makes sense?

Any good flinch-curing tips?

 

[One Shot One Kill]

Get snap caps and dry fire, A LOT, seems you've already started this, so do it often and the muscles memory over time should overcome this flinch when you transition to live fire.
I do this kind of practice while watching tv during commercials.
for a real challenge try balancing a penny on the front sight while doing this!

 

[Bfish]

Learn a proper grip and then practice dry firing a lot! A good way to work on your trigger control at the range is to rack a round in the chamber and eject the mag. You effectively get two trigger pulls (the slide will drop empty), one hot and the other not. Then just repeat. You will get double the practice on your trigger pulls and it just another option. I found it valuable when trying to work on follow up shots/ holding steady as not to flinch. My girlfriends dad decided to have her shoot a 45 of his that has a good push to it and when we went shooting the next time I couldn't figure out why she was flinching on a full sized 9mm until she told me... So I worked the above with her for a mag and it cured it perfectly.

Snap caps are a classic way to get some practice or really expose any flinching. If you have someone else mix snap caps into your loaded before you shoot that is also great. You will never know when the gun won't bang and it will really expose any flinching you have to work on. Thus it will keep you more aware when you are shooting like this of your trigger press, I realize you are talking about flinch but it all goes hand in hand.

Try just working on marksmanship at this point maybe and if you really need to run yourself down to a 22 pistol for a bit and then bump back up to larger caliber to help with the flinching.

 

[rvb]

how's your shot calling skill? Once you learn to call the shots, to really watch the FS through the shot/recoil, flinching will go away. you can't call the shot / track the sight and flinch at the same time.

-rvb

 

[Hopper]

When I was new to shooting, I completely admit that I anticipated the "bang". I used to HATE loud noises. So why did I get into being an owner when I knew full well that guns make loud noises?

Anyway, what I found to be HUGELY helpful for me was to first invest in snap caps, as others have mentioned. Going through dry fire practice helps you build muscle memory, it really does. And do you hear any loud bangs with snap caps? Of course not. That, for me, was step #1.

Step #2, which is really interesting in reading RVP's response above, was to invest in a Laser Target, and the appropriate caliber laser training cartridges. This allows for more realistic shooting that helped me tenfold with grip and trigger control. Standing at various yardage distances in my basement, I get good simulated practice with seeing where my shots are going, and not waking up the neighbors. No matter the weather, I can take 10 - 15 minutes here and there to practice. My son and I like to have little competitions, and his shooting has also improved dramatically, his results were even more immediate than my own (darned kids). I kid you not, this made a HUGE difference in my ability to hit what I'm aiming at.

It takes time and practice, it won't go away overnight. I will say that the Laser Target and cartridges have paid for themselves in the amount of ammo I no longer waste when I hit the range. I'm no Hickok, but I'm wayyy more confident and accurate than I ever thought I would be.

 

[Grelber]

Adjust your sights higher and to the right.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Dry practice and buy a Kadet for your CZ.

 

[Denny347]

Flinching is mostly a software issue. Dry firing helps rewrite the program. Get reps in. There is no substitute. I've seen many shooters do great dry firing but when we go hot, flinch like crazy. Sometimes they do fine with live fire but flinch when we add time, they begin to fire faster than they can recover from. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Start slow, form muscle memory speed will come and flinching will go.

 

[Lebowski]

I think I have the same issue to be honest. I've put probably 2,000 rds downrange through several pistols I now own and I can't hit a broadside of a barn if I were standing in front of it.

I've had random successes that seem to flee as soon as I attempt to replicate them. One day in the woods I was popping cans off of a log with my 45 and I was happy, and proud. I recall feeling like I was John Wayne, ha. The next day I could put 2, 8rd magazines through it at a 8" target at 25 yards and get 3 rounds on target... I'm actually quite embarrassingly bad with pistols and I've done everything I could do at home and in between range trips. Dry firing, snap caps. At home, all seems good. There is no movement of the front sight when I pull the trigger of an unloaded gun. At the range however, I don't know, something goes wrong. Should probably seek traditional training to correct that as I'd love nothing more to actually be able to hit the target I am aiming at!

Rifles on the other hand, no problem. Definitely not an expert shot by any means at all but at least with a rifle (scope or free sights) I can get on target every time.

 

[oldpink]

The others' advice about dry fire is an excellent remedy.
Another option would be to find an airgun (assuming the gun you're having a flinching problem with is a handgun) similar to your firearm, then shoot it a bunch.
There are lots of CO2 pistols out there that even have slides that recoil when fired to simulate firing a real gun.
It has the advantages of dry firing with the added benefit of operating much the way a real gun does.

 

[60Driver]

Excellent pointers above, Dry Fire, Learn to realy call shots, .22 practice. Another thought is double up your hearing pro if you are sound sensative.

Another tip I was once taught is if you throw a flyer or catch yourself anticipating... Stop, unload, perform 5 or 10 dryfires on the same target, proceed. Every time you "flich" do this, slows down practice and immediately teaches the "correct" (non anticipating) process. Has worked for a few I have taught and I do it myself if I start anticipating. And don't feel bad, I think at least 95% of us do this to one extent or another simply a matter of quality training/techniques and reps to overcome.

 

[rvb]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/296037-shooting-problems-any-ideas.htmlhttps://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/271769-flinch.htmlhttps://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/271769-flinch.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/271769-flinch.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/239915-will-dry-fire-help-me-4.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/85970-dry-firing-3.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/tactics-training/76942-shootin-left-3.html

 

[redwingshooter]

What I've discovered is that I can use several different grips, pull the trigger fast, slow, SA or DA, and the sights stay aligned and on target. That's how I figured out I probably have a flinch rather than a trigger pull problem.

I would not rule out trigger jerk just yet. I have the same issue, in dryfire I'm awesome. When you put real rounds in the gun the whole game changes (for me). RVB's advice is solid, mix in snap caps with live rounds and pay attention to where the front sight goes when you hit the snap cap. Make sure you mix up your mags so you don't know when the snap cap is coming. Also mix in multiples in some mags and none in others so you can't mentally cheat and know that a snap cap is coming up if you haven't hit one yet.

 

[dross]

Update. Went to the range today to try a few things. First of all, I'm a fairly experienced shooter, and I'm not sound sensitive, I'm not afraid of the recoil, I've just been flinching and didn't know it, and it's become a habit. I shoot heavy recoiling rifles and don't flinch. I can shoot small groups off the bench with my 375 H&H. There, now that my manliness has been established I'll continue.

I've had a 22 conversion kit for my CZ for years and shoot with it often. Guess what, I've always shot low and to the left with it as well. I shoot low and to the left with my CO2 pistol as well. Somewhere along the line I picked up a flinching habit with a pistol that I didn't know I had.

I've recently been reading Brian Enos's book - very good, BTW - and while he doesn't address flinching (not as far as I've gotten, anyway) he recommends something I realize I've never done. Watch the entire recoil cycle until the sights settle back on the target. I think someone mentioned that above. I've never been able to call my shots - I kind of didn't really believe it could be done to tell the truth. Today I shot a bunch of rounds without aiming, just concentrating on watching the recoil and playing around with my grip a bit until the recoil cycle got consistent. By trying to see it, I was able to see the entire cycle, and I could tell how the differences in my grip adjustments were affecting it. I could NOT however, call my shots. They ended up in places different from where I thought the sights were when the pistol discharged. More work to do there.

The good news is that after being conscious of my flinching problem, I was able to reduce it by about 80%. So in the past about 80% of my shots were low left, now only about 20%. Also, because I was watching the entire recoil cycle, when I ran a few fast strings I was more accurate than I've ever been shooting fast, and I still wasn't flinching. Only when I tried to go TOO fast did the flinch show back up again.

All in all, a big improvement with lots to work on.

 

[rvb]

Sounds like you are on the right track.
Very few people ever want to believe that seeing and shot calling are the key.
it will help all your shooting.
It's a skill that takes a little while to develop, so don't get discouraged.

there are games you can play to help, like set up a target to shoot at and have another one beside you. Mark the target where you think the shot went based on what you happening with the sights As the shot broke, then compare to the actual hole down range.

-rvb

 

[Grelber]

I've recently been reading Brian Enos's book - very good, BTW - and while he doesn't address flinching (not as far as I've gotten, anyway)

Keep reading .

 

[KoD]

Thanks for asking that. I am def gonna use some of these suggestions

 

[dross]

Keep reading .

I intend to. While it's clear that I need to develop my skills to a much higher degree than I have to take advantage of some of what he says, I can see the value based on (and he recommends this) my relating my other life skills to pistol shooting.

 

[cedartop]

I intend to. While it's clear that I need to develop my skills to a much higher degree than I have to take advantage of some of what he says, I can see the value based on (and he recommends this) my relating my other life skills to pistol shooting.

As with so many pursuits, you may not get everything out of it the first time around. I can't tell you how often I go back and read a book or watch a video and understand things that went completely over my head the first time.

 

[Zoub]

I intend to. While it's clear that I need to develop my skills to a much higher degree than I have to take advantage of some of what he says, I can see the value based on (and he recommends this) my relating my other life skills to pistol shooting.

Two weeks ago I related something from our range session to my wife's work as a Quality Engineer and the processes and machines she deals with. I could almost hear the click in her head and then she confirmed it. Coincidentally the issue happened to be flinching on a new handgun. I also moved the targets to about 4 yards so she could get instant visual feedback. That's the only trick I can add to what you are doing already. I thought she was pulling the trigger too but first shot I put through the gun I flinched. It was due to a different trigger pull from anything we own.

she just did some dry firing earlier this evening and we are hitting the pit again tomorrow for some more trigger time.