Is there a time limit max on background checks (Indiana)?

[bongoboy]

Just curious... is there a max time limit on background checks to purchase a handgun in Indiana? I have a misdemeanor PI on my record from January 2015. Even so, I applied for and received my lifetime concealed carry permit in January 2016. I purchased - or tried to - my first handgun a month ago (30 days today). The dealer called it in... and it was 'delayed'. No reason provided; just 'delayed'. I just checked with the dealer again - still 'delayed'. I provided my SSN on the paperwork when I filled everything out. Seems to me that it should be a simple phone call or two and this would be done - but I'm STILL waiting. They have my SSN... I have a valid carry permit... I anticipated no issues at all - so what in the world is the hold up? What are the guidelines for this here? Is there a max time limit that it can take before they MUST answer? Thanks for your thoughts...

 

[Frosty]

I *think* it's 3 days after the delay is issued that you get a good to go if they don't deny you.

 

[JettaKnight]

Your License to Carry (we don't have concealed carry permits in Indiana) has no bearing on your NICS background check. The former is a state thing, the latter is federal.

And yes, a delay w/o a denial has a time limit after which you are good to go - three days might be right, but no more than a week.


EDIT: Some big box stores treat a hold like a denial and won't sell to you without an expressed go-ahead from the Feds.

 

[possum_128]

After 30 days the 4473 form is void. You will have to fill out another one after 30 days.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Your License to Carry (we don't have concealed carry permits in Indiana) has no bearing on your NICS background check. The former is a state thing, the latter is federal.

And yes, a delay w/o a denial has a time limit after which you are good to go - three days might be right, but no more than a week.


EDIT: Some big box stores treat a hold like a denial and won't sell to you without an expressed go-ahead from the Feds.

THIS. per the gun counter guy I was chatting with during the walk of shame to the cash register, Dicks corporate policy is they will not release a firearm without an EXPLICIT "proceed" from NICS. Regardless of the law, they will not follow the "no news is good news" clause in the procedure.

 

[bongoboy]

Your License to Carry (we don't have concealed carry permits in Indiana) has no bearing on your NICS background check. The former is a state thing, the latter is federal.

And yes, a delay w/o a denial has a time limit after which you are good to go - three days might be right, but no more than a week.


EDIT: Some big box stores treat a hold like a denial and won't sell to you without an expressed go-ahead from the Feds.

Oops... I called it a 'concealed carry' but you are absolutely correct... it's a 'license to carry'.

I understand that it has no bearing on the NICS background check - but at the same time, they had to do an NICS background check on me to approve my license to carry, didn't they? It would just seem to me that armed with my SSN and ALL of my other demographic info that this should be a very simple and relatively quick process - NOT 30+ days. The delay is exactly what you mentioned... 'delay w/o denial'.

Just saw your edit in... and it is - it was a purchase at Rural King. It's just frustrating waiting, when (even though they don't know) I know that there's no reason for it. Further, it's costing me a few bucks - there were two mfr rebates on this gun, and one of those is now past the date to obtain.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Oops... I called it a 'concealed carry' but you are absolutely correct... it's a 'license to carry'.

I understand that it has no bearing on the NICS background check - but at the same time, they had to do an NICS background check on me to approve my license to carry, didn't they? It would just seem to me that armed with my SSN and ALL of my other demographic info that this should be a very simple and relatively quick process - NOT 30+ days. The delay is exactly what you mentioned... 'delay w/o denial'.

Just saw your edit in... and it is - it was a purchase at Rural King. It's just frustrating waiting, when (even though they don't know) I know that there's no reason for it. Further, it's costing me a few bucks - there were two mfr rebates on this gun, and one of those is now past the date to obtain.

30 days? Wow. you are more patient than I am.

If it were me, I'd walk away from that particular weapon/corporate seller. In my brief conversation on the subject I was told some people were coming to the store weekly and having the store follow up, and having to do it multiple times and a few just gave up.

I know it is frustrating, but you will be better served with a not so clear approval status to skip the big box stores and spend your money locally. I dont know of ANY LGS (Local Gun Stores) that dont honor the part of the law that allows them to release it at their discretion after the 3 day wait.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/a-nics-delay

"If the FFL has not received a final determination from the NICS after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer). If the FFL transfers the firearm, the FFL must check “no resolution was provided within three business days” on line 21d of the ATF Form 4473."

 

[bongoboy]

I AM a patient person, yes... but this IS kinda ridiculous. I'm not in a hurry, but still. Nonetheless... this gun is already bought and paid for. They just won't transfer until the background check clears. I could get a refund and purchase this gun elsewhere, but I'd likely take a restock fee hit for doing that. Frustrating as hell.

The ONLY thing that could possibly be holding this up is that misdemeanor PI -- and had I known that would do this at Rural King, despite the fact that it is local to me, I wouldn't have bought there. I've already called my attorney to have that charge expunged (because of this); just haven't gotten that completed yet.

 

[perminator]

i just went through appealing a denial thankfully it was just paperwork that the state never finished in 2010 but only took 1 day to get corrected after finding the reason for denial. Rather than expunge you could also just get a upin from the fbi i believe just requires opening a voluntary appeal file and sending in a copy of your fingerprints.

 

[bongoboy]

i just went through appealing a denial thankfully it was just paperwork that the state never finished in 2010 but only took 1 day to get corrected after finding the reason for denial. Rather than expunge you could also just get a upin from the fbi i believe just requires opening a voluntary appeal file and sending in a copy of your fingerprints.

I haven't been denied... but I am curious - how did you find out the reason for your denial? When I asked the store why I was even delayed, they told me they don't even know - just that it's 'delayed'.

Additionally, I'm going to expunge regardless, but what is a "upin"?

 

[MCgrease08]

My understanding is that with the sheer volume of the checks happening on a daily / montly basis, almost all of the agents have been moved over to processing requests. Very few are still focused on reviewing appeals and / or delays.

As others mentioned above, legally they can proceed without a definitive yes or no after 3 days. One of the benefits of using a LGS over a big corporate store.

It's seems odd that they would take payment before the NICS cleared. That would chap my behind if i had a bunch of money tied up in a gun in purgatory like that.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I AM a patient person, yes... but this IS kinda ridiculous. I'm not in a hurry, but still. Nonetheless... this gun is already bought and paid for. They just won't transfer until the background check clears. I could get a refund and purchase this gun elsewhere, but I'd likely take a restock fee hit for doing that. Frustrating as hell.

The ONLY thing that could possibly be holding this up is that misdemeanor PI -- and had I known that would do this at Rural King, despite the fact that it is local to me, I wouldn't have bought there. I've already called my attorney to have that charge expunged (because of this); just haven't gotten that completed yet.

IANAL, but fight the restock fee. Print out the FBI link above and highlight the legality of transferring after 3 business days and note their refusal to do so. If they are holding your product and are refusing to release it to you due to corporate policy, there should be ZERO restock fee. If they refuse and you paid by credit card, dispute the charge. Point out that they are choosing to not release it to you and that is not your fault.

I have NEVER been asked to give a FFL money until clearing the NICS check. Bradis, USDS, Dicks, Gander. ALL of them wont collect payment on the sale until they know you are legal. It may be splitting hairs, but wouldnt collecting money in full for a product constitute a sales contract, which would be illegal without a NICS transaction? Unless you are talking a layaway payment loss... But I digress.

Good luck!

EDIT: If it is been over 30 days you may need to "start over" and refill a new 4473 and have it called in again. If you get a delay again, go back on the 4th business day and discuss a full refund or they release the firearm. If it has been over 30 days they cant release it without a new 4473+call.

 

[Alpo]

Yeah...unless it's a special order item, no money before NICS clearance.

 

[littletommy]

I certainly wouldn't pay a restocking fee without putting up a BIG fight first. It's their problem if they want to make it harder than it has to be.

 

[HoughMade]

"restocking fee"- "Merle, did you ever pull that Glock off the shelf for that customer that got delayed?....No? OK."

 

[possum_128]

The only way he paid before approval at Rural King is he ordered the gun online at rkguns.com and had it shipped to his local store. And there is no charge for so called "re-stocking". And he knew this when ordering and buying the gun online. You do the paperwork when you go to pick up the gun the same as you would if you bought one from anywhere and had it shipped to a ffl. And yes, we ( Rural King) will not transfer a firearm without a proceed.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The only way he paid before approval at Rural King is he ordered the gun online at rkguns.com and had it shipped to his local store. And there is no charge for so called "re-stocking". And he knew this when ordering and buying the gun online. You do the paperwork when you go to pick up the gun the same as you would if you bought one from anywhere and had it shipped to a ffl. And yes, we ( Rural King) will not transfer a firearm without a proceed.

Awesome on the restock fee news, but you cant blame a guy for making that assumption. (unless you personally told him during his online order that there would be none) People skip the small stuff, and honestly, its been a while so I wouldnt blame him for forgetting such a trivial detail. After all, if it was a .com ship to store, it could be assumed by the customer that it might fall under the special order rules some companies have since the weapon didnt originate from his local store. There are way too many companies nickel and diming us to death with petty fees.

It still sucks that the Rural King policy doesnt jive with federal law in regards to the 3 day rule. I decided when I found out about Dicks' same policy they would not see another dime of my money for anything requiring a 4473, and now your employer is added to that list. Life is too short for headaches like that. Nothing personal of course.

Thanks for the insider's view on the situation. It is appreciated.

 

[LPMan59]

THIS. per the gun counter guy I was chatting with during the walk of shame to the cash register, Dicks corporate policy is they will not release a firearm without an EXPLICIT "proceed" from NICS. Regardless of the law, they will not follow the "no news is good news" clause in the procedure.

Lol they suck.

they also make you sign a form that you will store it properly and then they walk you to the door.

 

[chubbs]

Screw rural king, support your local gun shop. As for the nics process, we are not told why you are delayed. We simply are told proceed, further review, delayed, or denied. They have 3 days to let you know what to do with a delay, if they do not contact the dealer with in 3 days, it is up to the dealer. That being said, if the dealer gives it to you after three days and then they call with a denial, expect a visit from the ATF to reclaim the firearm.

 

[possum_128]

"It still sucks that the Rural King policy doesnt jive with federal law in regards to the 3 day rule. I decided when I found out about Dicks' same policy they would not see another dime of my money for anything requiring a 4473, and now your employer is added to that list. Life is too short for headaches like that. Nothing personal of course."

It's not a federal law that you have to sell the firearm to a delayed person after 3 days, they just state that you can go ahead with the sale.

"they also make you sign a form that you will store it properly and then they walk you to the door"

There is nothing on that form about storing it properly to my knowledge it's just a form that states that you have inspected the firearm and it's contents and that you except the firearm you are buying. As to the walking to the door part, all big box stores do that.

For those who don't care for those policies feel free to spend more money for your firearm elsewhere. Rural King is not perfect but no where is that I know of. But heck I just work there part time because I like being around guns and liked minded people and retirement is really boring. Now with that said, I think I will head outside and do some shooting!