Less murder in Australia and UK than US

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  • netsecurity

    Shooter
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    This is going to become the BIG comparison. Liberals say the US has 5x more murders than "civilized" countries. I've already seen it in a dozen anti gun articles. But we all know how statistics can be twisted.

    So I have just a couple very basic questions:

    1) Don't we also have 10x the population of these other countries like Australia? I've seen no statistics that account for population adjustment.

    2) Are our own statistics marred by just a couple LIBERAL states which actually have already basically made guns illegal, like Illinois and New York, and California? If we struck their murder rates from our statistics, how would the rest of the US compare?
     

    BravoMike

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    They do have fewer percentages of murders. They always have, even before their huge gun control laws where enacted. The thing is that gun control did nothing to change the murders per capita.
     

    eldirector

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    Stats like this or usually normalized to something like "rate per 100,000".

    Example:
    From (Australian Institute of Criminology - Comparing international trends in recorded violent crime)
    Trends in recorded violent crime in England and Wales, the United States, Canada, and Australia, rate per 100,000 persons, 1962-2004
    cfi115.gif
     

    Bubbajms

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    If you pull up the newspaper from Sydney, you'll still see lots of firearms-related crimes, including a LEO being shot not long ago.

    You may also bring up the fact that there have been mass killings there involving other methods - an intentionally set fire at a hostel that killed 15 or so, IIRC..
     

    T.Lex

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    Would be interesting to compare pro-carry states, though, particularly (for our purposes) Indiana. Or even pick a more populous state with similar absolute populations numbers.
     

    cosermann

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    Cross cultural comparisons are fraught with difficulty - because there are many social and cultural factors involved. It's not just about guns (which is one of the pro gun argument's points, BTW). Either side of this argument can cherry pick examples to prove its point.

    What's important is what happened to crime WITHIN the UK and Aus respectively before and after their bans. Comparing a population to itself cancels out the cross cultural factors.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...73/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

    And according to this article ^^^ from the Telegraph, the U.S. has lower violent crime rates than either the UK or Aus.

    (All this is assuming, of course, that the respective governments aren't cooking the books.)

    Excerpt:
    "It means there are over 2,000 crimes recorded per 100,000 population in the UK, making it the most violent place in Europe.

    Austria is second, with a rate of 1,677 per 100,000 people, followed by Sweden, Belgium, Finland and Holland.

    By comparison, America has an estimated rate of 466 violent crimes per 100,000 population."

    I am so sick of the "shrill ignorance" as Sowell puts it (much of it willful), lies and propaganda on this.
     
    Last edited:

    eldirector

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    Would be interesting to compare pro-carry states, though, particularly (for our purposes) Indiana. Or even pick a more populous state with similar absolute populations numbers.

    You'll have to tease out the pro- vs. anti-

    US-Murder-Rtae-map.jpg


    And thank you LAKE COUNTY for your contribution. :rolleyes:
     

    netsecurity

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    I guess the take away from that is banning guns leads to an increase in violent crime.

    YES, but it does pretty much eliminate mass shootings they say. Do we want to give up our freedom from being assaulted and raped nation wide by having less guns, or accept that we must fight against evil deeds. I suppose that is what it boils down to. I say we just need to all be ready to fight and not so damn complacent. We cannot let criminals and the insane dictate our culture and safety.
     

    eldirector

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    netsecurity

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    It doesn't even come close to eliminating mass shootings:
    Cumbria shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It just allows for more violence.


    I was referring to where I read that Australia hasn't had a single mass shooting since its ban. I wonder if Aussies have just kept such incidences quiet.

    EDIT: Oh, i have heard of Cumbria, it is very well known, but I thought it happened before the ban in Britain. It is proof that you don't need a 30 round mag to slaughter people with.
     

    mrjarrell

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    I wonder why that is? Could it be the 24x7 sensationalism by the media?
    The media certainly has something to do with it, but the law enforcement agencies out there also bang the gong so that they can get more money. The politicians pick up that particular mantra and they spew it, too. The public, not really knowing any better, gets into chicken little mode and gives them all what they want. Many, if not most, politicians have, at one time or another, ridden the "public safety" wagon to get elected or re-elected. Scared people are much easier to manipulate and control than informed people.
     
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