18 US Code 930 - Posession of Firearms and dangerous weapons in federal faciliti

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    JeffINGunner

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    I have a question, why is is so hard for people to read and understand basic laws? Why do people always say it is against the law to carry a gun in a federal facility:

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
    (b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

    (c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.

    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to— (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or

    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
     

    HoughMade

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    Be careful about assuming that "lawful purposes" in your mind is the same as "lawful purposes" in the mind of the U.S. Attorney in your District.

    If has been held that just because you are lawfully carrying does not meet you are carrying for "lawful purposes" if you enter a federal facility.
     

    JeffINGunner

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    Be careful about assuming that "lawful purposes" in your mind is the same as "lawful purposes" in the mind of the U.S. Attorney in your District.

    If has been held that just because you are lawfully carrying does not meet you are carrying for "lawful purposes" if you enter a federal facility.


    Unless I am committing a crime with that weapon, then I am carrying with "lawful purposes" plain and simple.
     

    HoughMade

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    You are making the mistake of assuming that the arresting, prosecuting and judicial officers will is the "plain meaning" of the phrase in deciding the fate of anyone who takes that exception at face value.
     

    JeffINGunner

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    You are making the mistake of assuming that the arresting, prosecuting and judicial officers will is the "plain meaning" of the phrase in deciding the fate of anyone who takes that exception at face value.

    Last time I checked, legally laws have to be written so that that every day person can understand them. And looking, section 3 spells it out plain and simple. "Incident to hunting "OR OTHER LAWFUL PURPOSES"" That seems pretty clear to me. Nothing to try and stick you with, you carried a gun, it was legal, you didnt break any laws, you were in a federal facility and carried and section 3 was the exception to being prosecuted.
     

    GodFearinGunTotin

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    Where they get you is "other lawful purposes" is not equivalent to "any and all lawful purposes". The former allows someone to decide what lawful purposes are to be recognized and which will get you thrown in jail.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Last time I checked, legally laws have to be written so that that every day person can understand them. And looking, section 3 spells it out plain and simple. "Incident to hunting "OR OTHER LAWFUL PURPOSES"" That seems pretty clear to me. Nothing to try and stick you with, you carried a gun, it was legal, you didnt break any laws, you were in a federal facility and carried and section 3 was the exception to being prosecuted.

    You do know you are arguing with an attorney dont you? He has so far had a pretty good grasp of laws and what they mean.

    IANAL but I too would like to see a test case. Please put your confidence in your interpretation of the law and OC into a federal facility that you think you are clear to carry in. Let us know how that works out for you. I'd jot down the phone number for Relford Law before you go. It might be a good choice for that "one phone call".
     

    JeffINGunner

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    You do know you are arguing with an attorney dont you? He has so far had a pretty good grasp of laws and what they mean.

    IANAL but I too would like to see a test case. Please put your confidence in your interpretation of the law and OC into a federal facility that you think you are clear to carry in. Let us know how that works out for you. I'd jot down the phone number for Relford Law before you go. It might be a good choice for that "one phone call".

    I have, and I will again, period, no one said anything at all to me.
     

    hopper68

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    I'm out. If the OP refuses to listen to a lawyer on how laws can be interpreted he is beyond reason or trolling and I will play elsewhere.
     

    JeffINGunner

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    I'm out. If the OP refuses to listen to a lawyer on how laws can be interpreted he is beyond reason or trolling and I will play elsewhere.

    Why because I have and I will again. I am sorry, but IMHO the law is pretty simple to understand. "OTHER LAWFUL PURPOSES"
     

    HoughMade

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    Hey, it may never be a problem for him. He may never be arrested. If he is ever arrested, he may never be prosecuted. If he is prosecuted, he may be acquitted. If he is found guilty, he may win reversal on appeal.

    I have several friends who would love to take this case and defend it. However, they don't do it for free. Further, every single one would counsel a client to not test the law unless they had a lot of time and money available.

    I say, good luck with that.

    [edit]

    I do admire the confidence in the system. Certainly if he states a "lawful purpose" (thereby waiving the right to remain silent) that is the only evidence of intent that could possibly be admissible.
     
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    JeffINGunner

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    OC Where and when? Otherwise, I'm calling BS.

    333 Scott St. Covington, KY probably 3 or 4 years ago. Walked in, walked right past the "magnetic machines". Went to where I was doing some work, did my work, then left, no harm no foul. Oh I have also carried into the statehouse, along with inside the Governors private office, with him sitting at his desk, also the governors residence, the Lt. Governors residence, etc. I carry everywhere. Oh and I am NOT law enforcement.
     

    T.Lex

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    333 Scott St. Covington, KY probably 3 or 4 years ago. Walked in, walked right past the "magnetic machines". Went to where I was doing some work, did my work, then left, no harm no foul. Oh I have also carried into the statehouse, along with inside the Governors private office, with him sitting at his desk, also the governors residence, the Lt. Governors residence, etc. I carry everywhere. Oh and I am NOT law enforcement.

    If you did this in the statehouse you either have the magic badge that opens doors or tailgated an employee. Do you have a state ID badge?

    But, even setting that aside, if you haven't had a problem, then why is this law an issue? Or are you trumpeting how reasonable federal LEOs are, since you've had no trouble?
     

    JeffINGunner

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    If you did this in the statehouse you either have the magic badge that opens doors or tailgated an employee. Do you have a state ID badge?

    But, even setting that aside, if you haven't had a problem, then why is this law an issue? Or are you trumpeting how reasonable federal LEOs are, since you've had no trouble?

    I have carried into each of the locations I mentioned, along with the federal building as stated. I had no problems at all. Did I "tailgate" anyone into the statehouse, nope, I do have a all access 24/7 badge that grants me access anywhere and everywhere, but laws should trump my badge. Why do I have an issue with this law, because this is bullcrap, this should not even go to SCOTUS, the law is perfectly clear, the carrying of weapons incident to hunting or other lawful purposes is pretty clear to me. As for federal LEO's I have ZERO respect for them, if there are any LEO's that would trample on the Constitution it is them.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    333 Scott St. Covington, KY probably 3 or 4 years ago. Walked in, walked right past the "magnetic machines". Went to where I was doing some work, did my work, then left, no harm no foul. Oh I have also carried into the statehouse, along with inside the Governors private office, with him sitting at his desk, also the governors residence, the Lt. Governors residence, etc. I carry everywhere. Oh and I am NOT law enforcement.


    I may be wrong, but arent those STATE properties, not FEDERAL?
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Looking at ownership records for 3333, IRS doesnt own the building, they lease space from a non govt entity. Grey area?

    EDIT I believe being a badged employee/vendor has a LOT to do with your access. Much more than 18USC. I'm sure none of us would have anywhere near the luck you do if we tried to do the same.

    And the Gov's office is a red herring. Its a state building.
     
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