Mailman carry, self defense during illegal carry

[Mailman86]

Hello people,

I am posting in hopes of finding an answer to a situation.

I am a mailman. It is illegal for a mailman to carry on the job. Not long ago, I had a close call with a bad guy - the details are not relevant here. I am trying to decide whether carrying would be a wise choice in the future...

Does anyone know what the penalty would be for shooting and (possibly) killing someone in a justifiable self defense situation, but while carrying illegally...? Say, on USPS property or a school or what have you...Im aware that I could be fired, but at that point they can obviously have the job. Im interested in the legal repercussions only. Can I be charged with murder or manslaughter...or whatever...? Have there been any similar cases? Etc...

So:
1. Legal to carry - licensed in IN
2. Deadly force/defense is justified
but
3. Legislated gun free area


Thank you.

 

[Spear Dane]

If you did something worthy of a murder/manslaughter charge it hardly matters whether or not the USPS approved of you carrying. You would still be charged even if you were on your own time.

 

[Mailman86]

If you did something worthy of a murder/manslaughter charge it hardly matters whether or not the USPS approved of you carrying. You would still be charged even if you were on your own time.

No no no...Im asking if it would be considered that sort of crime by the police/feds for a license holder to justifiably defend themselves with a gun in a "forbidden zone" such as federal property.

 

[IndianaResident]

This is a judge by 12/carried by 6 type of situation, and probably one better not posted about on the internet. That said, you could carry on your route but secure it in your vehicle when going into schools or USPS property and therefore, if discovered, only be subject to the results of the encounter and administrative action by your employer. (i.e., fired or suspended etc, charged or not by the state as relevant to the legality of your shooting, but not in violation of federal laws that prohibit carry in those places.)

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

No no no...Im asking if it would be considered that sort of crime by the police/feds for a license holder to justifiably defend themselves with a gun in a "forbidden zone" such as federal property.

I don't think so. You might well be prosecuted by the feds for violating federal law.

 

[IndianaResident]

No no no...Im asking if it would be considered that sort of crime by the police/feds for a license holder to justifiably defend themselves with a gun in a "forbidden zone" such as federal property.

Yes.
Those two separate issues that may spill over into aggravating or mitigating factors, but both would still likely be pursued.
1) Were you legally justified in using your weapon.
2) Were you violating state or federal laws in carrying at the site in which it occurred.

 

[Mailman86]

So if I was justified to use the weapon, but in violation of state/federal laws at the time...

Do I face charges for ONLY the violation (carrying where prohibited) or since there was a use of force would the charges escalate into something far more serious?

Yes its a judged by 12 thing...but for what would they be judging me? This is my question...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

No no no...Im asking if it would be considered that sort of crime by the police/feds for a license holder to justifiably defend themselves with a gun in a "forbidden zone" such as federal property.

If you shot someone in Indy, I work in the office that would respond to the call. The federal laws in question would be referred to the Feds and I have no idea what they would do. There's no state law that forbids a mailman to carry, so you're fine there on MY end and has no bearing on if it's a justified shooting or not. You can be a felon in illegal possession of a firearm and it doen't change the legality of the shooting itself, although it potentially opens you up to 'felon in possession' type charges. This would be similar. The shooting is one issue, the carrying another.

 

[Mailman86]

A similar example: say a licensed carrier was attacked in a school...defense/deadly force is clearly justified, but its on a school property...

Is it a murder/manslaughter case or a carrying on school property case?

 

[Mailman86]

If you shot someone in Indy, I work in the office that would respond to the call. The federal laws in question would be referred to the Feds and I have no idea what they would do. There's no state law that forbids a mailman to carry, so you're fine there on MY end and has no bearing on if it's a justified shooting or not. You can be a felon in illegal possession of a firearm and it doen't change the legality of the shooting itself, although it potentially opens you up to 'felon in possession' type charges. This would be similar. The shooting is one issue, the carrying another.

Interesting...thank you...I believe this is basically the same as what Im asking.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

A similar example: say a licensed carrier was attacked in a school...defense/deadly force is clearly justified, but its on a school property...

Is it a murder/manslaughter case or a carrying on school property case?

.

You can be a felon in illegal possession of a firearm and it doen't change the legality of the shooting itself, although it potentially opens you up to 'felon in possession' type charges. This would be similar. The shooting is one issue, the carrying another.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'll second everything IndianaResident has said.

The two issues - use and possession are separate (yet together...): If it's clearly self defense, then the location, etc. won't affect those charges. You could be completely clear of any manslaughter / assault changes and still be charged with federal law violations.

Also, I don't think it's illegal for a mailman to carry, just that it is illegal for all of us to carry on postal property. (does that include a truck?)


My guess is that you're much more likely to be found carrying through the course of normal action than have a self defense encounter. In this case, you're highly likely to lose your job and possibly face federal prosecution. IMHO, IANAL, etc., etc.

We've presented the possibilities: you're a big boy and can decide how to act based on the possible consequences - I won't tell you what to do.

 

[KittySlayer]

That said, you could carry on your route but secure it in your vehicle when going into schools or USPS property...

I did not think that the locked in the car rule applied to USPS property. I always thought it was like a football touchdown, cross that imaginary plane of the USPS property line and you were violating federal law with the mere possession of a gun, even inside your car. IANAL so don't rely on my comment as fact and hope others will educate me if wrong.

 

[JollyMon]

Well also though you would be committing a crime by stepping onto post office property while carrying.

 

[Mailman86]

The mail truck is considered federal property, so is the parking lot. Its not that a mailman cant carry, its that carrying it at work would be carrying on federal property...

Ill think it over long and hard. I just want to collect the right ideas to think about.

Thanks folks.

 

[JettaKnight]

I did not think that the locked in the car rule applied to USPS property. I always thought it was like a football touchdown, cross that imaginary plane of the USPS property line and you were violating federal law with the mere possession of a gun, even inside your car. IANAL so don't rely on my comment as fact and hope others will educate me if wrong.

School property = state laws.
USPS property = federal laws.

Securing a gun in the parking lot is OK under state law, but federal law almost always trumps state laws.

 

[rhino]

Don't forget that whatever you type on an online forum is there for everyone to see and it's not anonymous even if you think no one can know the identity behind a userid.

 

[singlestacksig]

You have your own police force... Just report the problem person to the USPS..
The Feds will not look kindly to a mail carrier being armed..

 

[hopper68]

The Feds will not look kindly to a mail carrier being armed..

Ever since the phrase "going postal" was coined, it has been a bad idea for mail carriers to carry firearms. Public (sheep) opinion would be calling for someone's head.

 

[david890]

The mail truck is considered federal property, so is the parking lot.

I've carried onto USPS property (the parking lot), but didn't exit the vehicle without securing the weapon.

IANAL, but I wouldn't risk the carry on the route, in the truck, etc.

Can you carry a Taser or pepper spray on USPS property or in your truck?