PW Arms Ar-12 Shotgun on the way!

[One Shot One Kill]

PW Arms AR-12 Black 12GA 20-inch 5Rd Online Gun Store
Just ordered this the other day from Grabagun. Been wanting a semi-auto 12 (magazine fed was a dream) for a while when I saw this puppy in an email ad during my birth month (uhoh haha!). Jumped on it and am waiting for it ship out as we speak. As I haven't found much info online (saw some good talk about it on the Saiga forum) or anything on Ingo about it, so naturally I will be back with a range report as soon as I pick it up and break it in at the local range!
Appears to be almost identical to the MKA 1919 and BR-99. I'm looking forward to trying it out, hopefully it will be a decent gun for the money! Turkey made by Leader Arms, could not find much on the gun, so I'm going in on faith from what few good things I've heard online.

 

[jblomenberg16]

Very interesting. I've always been curious with the AR and AK based shot guns with a sight axis that is that high above the bore. I imagine shooting skeet and trap, or bird hunting would be a challenge, but for slugs and perhaps close quarters work the off-set wouldn't be a real issue. I assume this has a full rail on the top, so mounting a red dot would be practical.

 

[One Shot One Kill]

Very interesting. I've always been curious with the AR and AK based shot guns with a sight axis that is that high above the bore. I imagine shooting skeet and trap, or bird hunting would be a challenge, but for slugs and perhaps close quarters work the off-set wouldn't be a real issue. I assume this has a full rail on the top, so mounting a red dot would be practical.

Already ahead of you haha. Yeah, it's a fully railed flat top, I have a primary arms reflex sight that will be promptly replacing the sights. According to a dealer I talked to, the sights easily are removed without special tools (thankfully)! I might throw on some mbus for slugs and use the red dot for buck/birdshot!

 

[One Shot One Kill]

Out-of-box Review

Summary for those light readers out there:
Comes with a manual, 2 5-round magazines, and 4 chokes - Price 399.99
Appears well built
Sights suck
Mags dont drop feely
Handguard isn't the best
Has AR buttons (magazine release and bolt release)
Tad front heavy
Overall - Damn good shotgun for $400, despite it's flaws. (no Vepr by any means, but also is 1/3 the price!)

Ok, here’s my initial FULL review:
Out of the box I was surprised with the quality of the fit and finish of this gun - not bad for a turkey made shotgun. It comes with a manual, 2 5-round magazines, and 4 Benelli style chokes. It is by no means perfect though, and I have several praises and gripes about it. First impression was that the ergonomics are pretty good, and the lower and upper are mated together very well, though the balance isn't amazing... it's by no means unwieldly, but it is just a tad front heavy (this is with an empty mag mind you, with a full mag it slightly better.. barely). This gun is fairly light, weighing in at 6.5lbs empty... not bad for a 12. The action and all moving parts of the gun aren't exactly pretty, but they don't look like crap either. It appears, for all intents and purposes, to be a well built shotgun and I would be surprised if it didn't function reliably; in short it’s about as pretty as a Mossberg shotgun, not perfect, but not junk either; the metal appears to be of fair quality as far as I can tell and the action is pretty smooth. The action is a similar to the Remington 1100 I believe (not a shotgun expert) but the magazine release and bolt release are nearly identical to an AR-15 rifle. There are no obnoxious burrs and tooling marks are few (with only a few noticeable in the action). The gun is fairly light and the polymer appears to be sturdy (though not the prettiest I've seen) with no defects that would give me pause. The magazine release is a bit "gritty" feeling and the charging rubber "knob" is all but useless; the rubber is far too soft and actually makes it harder to get a good grip, and I will most likely remove it. Magazines do not drop free, but I hope this will change over time. The lower is polymer, as is the buttstock, trigger, handguard and rear sight. The handguard and rear sight (+front) are my only pet peeves here, with the guard being made of 2 pieces that snap together, leaving a gaping seam down the rail (I hope the rail is good enough for a mbus sight, we'll see...). The rear sight as well as the front (which is made of some pot metal by the looks of it), both appear to be garbage as far as I'm concerned. I have no doubt that they would function adequately, but they look and feel like junk. They will be promptly replaced, so this is of no real issue to me. The gun comes with 4 Benelli style chokes being cylinder, mod., full, and a mystery choke that the manual doesn't mention that I can only assume is imp. cyl (I'll have to check and get back on that one). The rubber recoil pad of the buttstock is a bit "clingy" and appears to be a bit too soft for my tastes, though this may be necessary to deal with the recoil of this fairly light shotgun. The manual itself is crap; missing info, typos, and bad grammar (came from Turkey for chrissake, what do you expect?), but is helpful enough to get the basic disassembly process down.
Though I may have moaned and groaned over every detail, this should not to be interpreted as displeasure. I am merely trying to be truthful on the features of this gun, particularly since any online reviews of it are non-existent (classic arms recently posted a range review).
I will say that overall I am VERY satisfied with this purchase so far, and believe that for a mere $405 that this is the BEST DEAL you are going to find for a magazine fed shotgun. It’s no Vepr or converted Saiga, but it also is about 1/3 of the price.
I will have a range report up on this as soon as I can hit the gun range!
PW Arms AR-12 Black 12GA 20-inch 5Rd Online Gun Store
For 399.99, I'm happy, but I'm not making any promises until I've taken this puppy to the range!

 

[lx2nv]

Thanks for the review. Any updates? Were the sights easy to take off? How does it shoot?

Thanks.

 

[PRasko]

Color me stupid, but isn't there already a 12g shotgun upper for .308 lowers?

 

[shooter521]

Color me stupid, but isn't there already a 12g shotgun upper for .308 lowers?

Yes and no. It is nominally a 12ga upper, but it takes proprietary ammunition (not standard 12ga stuff).

https://www.impactguns.com/msn-ras-12-upper-kit-185in-8rd-14-3001-810280020212.aspx

 

[Shoots4Fun]

I think they look cool but frankly the review on Classic Arms website where they post a video of a "review" of them shooting it scared me off. I can't wait until you tell how it shot and if it was reliable on various types of ammo. Let us know.

 

[JTScribe]

Any aftermarket or higher cap mags avail?

 

[Yamadog35]

It is my understanding that the gun in the OP is another remake of the MKA 1919 which has been around for a few years. I'm told the mags for the MKA work in this gun as well so there are sources for "factory" 10 round magazines. I'm not aware of true aftermarket mags, but there are outfits that make adapters to add capacity to factory mags. There are 3-gun guys that use souped up versions of this platform in their competitions and use extenders to create crazy hi cap versions.

5 and 10 round mags
Magazines - MKA-1919

There is also a "gen 2" version out
Tooth & Nail Armory MKA 1919 10 round Magazine GEN 2 - IN STOCK

Here is one of the extended versions used by the 3-gun guys. This is 23 rounder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS3G5MzwDsQ

The weakness of these guns has been the magazines causing various feed failures, etc. You have to pretty much tune each mag to get reliability which involves tweaking the steel feed lips. There are some forum threads out there that explain how to do this.

I have one of the MKA's, but for me it is definitely just a range toy. Mine has been modified including the addition of an American made aluminum lower.

 

[lx2nv]

looks pretty awesome!

 

[One Shot One Kill]

Haha didn't realize I had gotten so many peoples attention, sorry about the (lack of) range review! I had a sight mount malfunction and was not able to get a decent run in.
I'll have a range review soon, barring anymore equipment failures.
Haven't had much time lately and may not get around to this until next weekend
Sights were extremly easy to remove using a hex wrench.

I will say that I had 100% reliability shooting Walmart 25pack MG 00 Buckshot, 100% relability using Winchester super x high brass 2 3/4 (11), very bad reliability using Suprema 00 buckshot (10), and 100% relability with a full box (25) of Winchester super x hi velocity BB shot 3", and 100% with 2 3/4 remmington sluggers (15).
86 round count, with the only ammo that failed being Suprema 00 buck (10rds).

Hope to get another 100 rounds in next time, and try some low brass to test it's reliability.

 

[One Shot One Kill]

UPDATE: PA reflex sight cracked glass in 2 spots and dot stopped coming on during the 2nd range attempt.
Got a burris fastfire III and am going to try this once more... The gun has been splendid so far, but PA reflex sight has not (though their customer service was excellent and I got a replacement promptly).

As a side note, I got an MKA 1919 reduced recoil spring which seems to fit fine but has not yet been tested.
Another tip.. LOCTITE!!! Anything with a bolt/screw has to be locktited down on this gun. I've had things work themselves VERY loose without it. With locktite, there is no problem at all (this is mounting hardware/sight/and 1 spring cap screw).

 

[One Shot One Kill]

Had problems with finding a front sight (mbus didnt hold zero because no FF handguard), but Saigastock.com had Firebird precision adjustable front sights in stock for MKA 1919's. $50 shipped and it worked like a charm. I have slugs zeroed in with irons and center of shot patterns about where the red dot on an attached Burris Fastfire III with lower 1/3 cowitness

Gun cycled all loads of 12 ga ammo I could throw at it with a velocity of 1300+. Slugs ran beautifully, and once again the only ammo that would not work is Suprema 00 buck.
When I installed the low recoil spring (courtesy tooth&nail armory), it also ate 1215fps ammo with only 1 problem (hull ripped from rim).
170 rounds with only 2 of those having issues, not counting Suprema(ly suck) buckshot.
Range was too crowded for pics, so I'll try for those next post.

 

[Lancer308]

Yamadog, Hello, I am buying the shotgun. Your model that you built is impressive. Would you be able to direct me to the links that you purchased the float tube, back stock and other parts to build your gun? I have been searching online and the parts differ me to AR-15. Thank you and I look forward to your reply. Sincerely, Lance

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Yamadog, Hello, I am buying the shotgun. Your model that you built is impressive. Would you be able to direct me to the links that you purchased the float tube, back stock and other parts to build your gun? I have been searching online and the parts differ me to AR-15. Thank you and I look forward to your reply. Sincerely, Lance

You might try carolinashooterssupply.com Greg is a stand up guy - and can probably point you in the right direction, if he doesn't carry what you need.

 

[Lancer308]

Thank you

You might try carolinashooterssupply.com Greg is a stand up guy - and can probably point you in the right direction, if he doesn't carry what you need.

Thank you so much.

 

[Yamadog35]

Yamadog, Hello, I am buying the shotgun. Your model that you built is impressive. Would you be able to direct me to the links that you purchased the float tube, back stock and other parts to build your gun? I have been searching online and the parts differ me to AR-15. Thank you and I look forward to your reply. Sincerely, Lance

Talk to these guys Tooth and Nail Armory They make parts for the MKA 1919 like the forearm that is on mine. I know they've looked over these other clone versions to come along as well and they've noted which parts are interchangeable. On the original MKA you could cut off the rear of the stock and use an adapter to attach a standard AR buffer tube and stock. On my gun I've swapped out the original polymer lower for an aluminum lower that has the threaded area for the buffer tube like an AR lower. Not sure if the gun you bought can do this or not. The guys at T&N should be able to tell you.

 

[Lancer308]

Hunting with AR-12

Talk to these guys Tooth and Nail Armory They make parts for the MKA 1919 like the forearm that is on mine. I know they've looked over these other clone versions to come along as well and they've noted which parts are interchangeable. On the original MKA you could cut off the rear of the stock and use an adapter to attach a standard AR buffer tube and stock. On my gun I've swapped out the original polymer lower for an aluminum lower that has the threaded area for the buffer tube like an AR lower. Not sure if the gun you bought can do this or not. The guys at T&N should be able to tell you.

Has anyone heard of using the AR-12 to hunt such as turkey or even duck hunt? I would be curious on what their thoughts are, especially turkey hunting.

 

[One Shot One Kill]

UPDATE:

Avoid this thing like the plague. Gave it a chance, but it seems it's not a quality firearm. I've not had many problems, but the ones I have had are major... excessive headspace or highspeed bolt leading to hulls ripped from rims, and charging handle snapped clean in half during normal firing. The importer sent me a part quickly and have been easy to deal with (though nearly impossible to get a hold of).

Sad, because this thing is a freakin' blast to shoot and I loved it.. but it's just not worth it.