Black Powder questions

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  • PTinbound

    Marksman
    Aug 27, 2009
    156
    18
    DeMotte
    Hey all, I'm curious about getting a black powder rifle. I'm talking about a modern one. Primarily used for target shooting, but also for deer hunting in black powder season. I've heard that some of these things can recoil as hard as a mosin, and I'd like to avoid that. I'd like something that recoils as little as possible (I really like the AR-15!) but still powerful and accurate enough to get a deer out to 100 yards. Cabelas has dozens of these things at all different price points, but I have no idea what I'm looking at or what are good features to look for. Any suggestions?
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,734
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    One of the things about black powder, is you have a big flexibility on loads. Just like a cartridge rifle, the best accuracy is generally at one load, but acceptable performance is found at other levels also. Use the manufacturers recommended powder charge range, don't over do it. My particular rifle will handle up to 150 grains of powder, and at that level has some recoil. It will also shoot lighter bullets with as little as 60 grains of powder. That light load does fine for 50 to 150 foot paper target use and does not kick. That is what I load when I take the grandkids out, even the little girls are fine with it.

    Don't forget that deer season in Indiana is usually cold. You will be wearing lots of clothes. Even at maximum load, you will not notice a heavy recoil for the one shot you make on that deer. It is not like you will be shooting all morning.
     

    DeadeyeChrista'sdad

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Feb 28, 2009
    10,072
    149
    winchester/farmland
    Purchase CVA Blackpowder and Muzzleloading Products Online

    That LR 30 is the BOMB! It'll handle magnum loads and modern projectiles, but the first shot out of mine was given to my 7 year old nephew. 50 grains of 2f goex and a patched roundball. He got a figurative, but not much of a literal, kick out of it.

    Don't forget that this time of year is the very best for picking up used rifles, as well. Most any sidelock using caps would be fine to start off with, and will run better accuracy on light loads.

    You might look at the NMLRA and their website.

    National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association

    Let me tell you. Go to one national shoot and you'll be hooked! It's a whole subculture within the shooting world with disciplines and events for man, woman, and child. Skeet, trap, pistol, target for every style of rifle, silhouette, chunk guns, kids events, bench guns, the whole primitive encampment, (which every red blooded American should see at least once in their lifetime. ), the woods walks, the Max Vickery primitive range, the huge flea market areas, horse drawn trolleys, cannon fire, a magazine selling any powder you want from 1f up to 5, good lord, I can't wait for june!
     

    M67

    Grandmaster
    Jan 15, 2011
    6,181
    63
    Southernish Indiana
    Watch out buying used muzzle loaders. Seized breech plugs, bulged barrels, rusted to hell bores, rusted actions, etc. Not to say that all used muzzle loaders are worthless, but there's a lot of rust pipes out there and people will claim that they take care of them and they had the breech plug out a week ago, yet when you try to get it out an impact wrench won't even budge it

    CVA is starting to nitride the barrels on some of their MLs, that's a pretty slick idea. Accura or Optima with a nitride barrel, shoot loose powder of Blackhorn 209 or Black MZ and tune your load.

    MLs don't kick the snot out of you unless there's no recoil pad or you're shooting 150gr. 100 gr or 2 Triple Seven pellets don't kick much
     

    Hookeye

    Grandmaster
    Dec 19, 2011
    15,039
    77
    armpit of the midwest
    I had great accuracy for years using caplock .50 cals with 100gr FFg and a round ball (or conical).
    Even pretty good with sabots (all bbls were 1 in 48 twist).
    Some vertical stringing, when new. About 100 shots later they were good to go.
    Could forgo the "break in" of 50-100 shots, and just polish the bore (did that to one).
    Never saw the greater accuracy with lighter load stuff. But never saw them go to pot with loads down to 70gr either (roundball).

    Bullet weight makes a diff on recoil. Huge difference when burning 100gr of powder and running a 180 gr roundball vs 385gr conical.
    Stock designs can help with that, or make it worse.

    240gr bullet/sabot with 100gr FFg is pretty comfy. Get something with a recoil pad and it should be even moreso.
    Standard deer load for quite a while.

    The newer inline stuff is pretty sweet, easy to take apart at the end of the day (no need to fire the shot at the end of the hunt).
    The "speed breech" stuff even more slick.
    Unfortunately, even with such conveniences.............way too many people flub it and rust up the breech plug and or bores.

    I gave up BP a couple of yrs back.
    Was offered an Encore Pro Hunter stainless/flex tech..........all decked out..............for free.

    Nope.

    Gave my .50 cal to my dad too (kinda collectible).

    BP is fun, esp the old sidehammers..............but I've had my time with it. IMHO the changes have made things more temperamental.
    Not worth the hassle.
     

    Leadeye

    Grandmaster
    Jan 19, 2009
    36,696
    113
    .
    Knight MK85, good looking gun and very accurate. For recreation and occasional hunting a caplock like Hookeye is describing. I use an old TC Hawken 50.
     

    sloughfoot

    Grandmaster
    Apr 17, 2008
    7,153
    83
    Huntertown, IN
    Recoil sensitive tender people tend to shoot bows and arrows. They can be deadly on deer. The truly sensitive use a crossbow.

    Don't forget, a maxi pad stuck to your shoulder really mitigates that awful recoil from those noisy rifles.

    I hope this is helpful.
     

    Sgt7330

    Sharpshooter
    Jan 25, 2011
    674
    12
    Rush Co.
    Don't buy into the needing 150 gr of powder to shoot/hunt with a muzzleloader. I own several, inline and percussion traditional guns. My loads for deer are usually 80-100 grains depending on what each gun shoots well and recoil really isn't that bad. With a 209 primer you can shoot loose powder (which I prefer for tuning the load), or you can shoot the pellets. Once again, don't buy into the "drop 3 pellets" for 150 grains and just shoot. 100 gr is plenty, unless your gun just likes the "magnum" load. Your shoulder won't, it will be more expensive, and some guns aren't long enough to get proper burn on those 3 pellets. I recommend buying one new, reading the owner manual and going out and shooting to see what it and you like.
    **
    My early Christmas gift was a CVA Optima Nitride finish gun and I really like it so far. I am trying out the Blackhorn 209 powder and so far it has been very good, easier to clean and seems to shoot tighter groups. Remember, if you get a muzzleloader and shoot Pyrdex, Triple 7 or most any blackpowder substitute you will need to clean it a bit different and take a little more care of it than a regular smokeless powder gun.
    **
    By that I mean cleaning wise, as most of the powders used can corrode. Blackhorn 209 recommends cleaning with regular solvents, but most all other powder clean up will need either soap and water, rubbing alcohol, windex or some commercial blackpowder clean solution. Not really a big deal, but study up a bit on cleaning to save corrosion from happening to your new gun. I also do not use gun oil inside the bores, only a non petroleum lube like CVA slick lube or Bore Butter. As mentioned before, look carefully at breech plugs and the bores of used guns to make sure they aren't seized and corroded bad. Check out Cabelas, Sportmans Guide, Bass Pro, Midway USA, Dixie Gun Works and see what you like. A new CVA is under $300 w/o the nitride, so not too expensive.
    **
    If you get one and need any help just ask, they are fun and actually quite effective at taking deer.
     

    Mgderf

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    May 30, 2009
    17,879
    113
    Lafayette
    I picked up a CVA Wolf at Wal-Mart this time last year. Just after season close, and I only paid $79.95 for it.
    Didn't really need it, but couldn't pass it up at that price.
     

    clfergus

    Expert
    Mar 9, 2009
    1,464
    38
    Southeast Indy
    I wouldn't worry about the recoil, it isn't that noticeable at all. I think most people make it too difficult when getting into black powder shooting. I think the list below is a good starter list of what you would need. Get the gun and clean it out, go to the range and drop 2 triple seven pellets down the barrel. Place your bullet in the barrel and push it down on to the pellets. Drop in a primer, shoot and repeat for a couple of shots.

    Then swab the barrel with a wet patch. then a couple dry ones using your ramrod and jag. Repeat shooting a couple of shots and cleaning until you get sighted in. You might need to clean after each shot but I doubt it. My TC Triumph can go 4 shots before I need to swab.

    Once you are done, take it home and remove the breech plug and clean it really good. Swab the barrel until no residue is coming out on the dry patches. I then use bore butter on a patch down the barrel to prevent rust. If I am storing for the season I will use a patch with a special T17 oil that keeps the barrel oiled and displaced moisture.

    Last step is add some anti-seize grease to the breech plug and place it back in the gun. You will find all kinds of gadgets that do make life easier like a bullet starter, patch puller, breech cleaner tool and so on. But I think the list is the minimum I would start with.

    - Gun
    - Proper Sized Bullets (.45/.50cal)
    - Powder/Pellets (I prefer pellets - 2 equals 100gr)
    - Cleaning jag to place on your ramrod
    - Anti-seeze grease for your breech plug
    - patches for cleaning (saturated/dry)
    - breech plug hole cleaner (little needle pin looking gizmo)
    - primers
    - Bore lube (for storage)
     

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