Upgrade the Model 70 or Keep Her Traditional?

[roscott]

I have a beautiful Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 30-06. It looks like this:

I love the wood stock on the rifle, but as it sits, I can only squeeze 2-2.5 MOA out of the rifle. I have tried LOTS of different ammunitions, bullet weights, etc. (I'm definitely no sniper, but I do have other rifles that I can generally produce 1 MOA or even sub MOA groups with. So I don't think it's my shooting.)

The trigger on my Model 70 stinks. The barrel is not free floated. And the recoil pad is nearly non-existent. Suffice to say, I love the looks, but it's just not a shooter.

My dilemma is whether to start down the road of changing the gun, or leave it as is and do a different build. I am considering a Timney trigger, and a McMillian Edge or a Bell and Carlson Medalist Ultralight. (Probably the B&C because the Edge is pretty dang pricey.) It has a Nikon Buckmaster on it, so that would probly get swapped out for something with better glass along the way.

Is it worth chasing the accuracy (and weight savings) for a hunting rifle, or should I just leave the dang thing alone?

 

[PGRChaplain]

Are you Flinching? That gun will Beat You Up.

 

[roscott]

Are you Flinching? That gun will Beat You Up.

I certainly don't think so. I've shot rifles with worse recoil, and had much better accuracy.

 

[BigMatt]

You should be able to get to 1MOA out of that rifle.

I have a pre-64 in 30-06 and it really likes Sellier and Bellot 180gr SPCE.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Your rifle doesn't appear to be a pre-64, so no collector value ... make your rifle what you want it to be. Hell, even if it was pre-64, you're not going to become independently wealthy by selling this rifle ... make your rifle what you want it to be.

I think the trick is to make only one modification at a time so that you can evaluate the progress along the way. Trigger first. Then bedding, free floating the barrel, and recoil pad. New stock? ... maybe if you don't want to work on the original wood stock. Finally, new scope mounted on a solid single piece base.

If you're into reloading, you can fine tune from there. If not, back to the drawing board experimenting with different factory ammo.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

[gregr]

If I were starting over, and getting rid of my Ruger in 30-06, I`d sure try to go Winchester 70, and if money weren`t tight, it would absolutely be pre-64. If I had that rifle, I`d try to do it up right. Why have that great a rifle and not do it justice?

 

[Old Bear]

I have never found a featherlight barrel contour to be a tack driver. They just get too hot, too fast. They are designed to be lighter to carry up and down mountains. I'm not saying that all of your proposed modifications wont help a little, but you probably not going to get the results you are looking for.
If it were me, and the rifle was capable of taking game at ranges you are comfortable with, I'd leave it as is. (I love the profile of those rifles). If you absolutely need more accuracy than what you have now, I'd get another rifle with the features you mentioned and a heavier profile barrel. IMHO

 

[Clay Pigeon]

I would leave it alone. Its a hunting rifle, not a benchrest rifle.

 

[halfmileharry]

These are usually a very accurate rifle.
There's many reasons a rifle might not group tight.
I have a few of the M70s like yours. That stock is susceptible to light warping. They're not sealed good from the factory and moisture will swell the wood. Run a dollar bill down the barrel underneath the stock. If it's hanging up you'll get some issues out of accuracy. You might need to sand a bit of wood out and seal the wood properly.
Make sure there's no debris between the action and stock. I had some grass got into one of mine and killed the accuracy/point of impact.
You should have a raised edge about an inch or so from the rear of the barrel in the stock. It needs to be there. Other than that you don't want any contact on the wood on that rifle.
The Timneys are nice triggers. There's 2 styles for the Model 70. Many of those won't use the MOA trigger as it's too wide to fit into the action slots. Still, for $125 it's a good upgrade and not bad even as a hunting trigger.
You're not going to get the aftermarket support on that rifle that you will from a Remington or Savage. .
When you're done you're still running a pencil barrel that's good for a couple of shots and heats up quick. Point of impact will probably start raising towards 10 o'clock as it warms up if it does like mine.
You can adjust the tension nut on the factory trigger to really help out with the pull but you'll still get some creep out of the original trigger.
Those are nice lightweight models.
From experience I'd build another rifle and leave that jewel stock. It's a good looking lightweight Classic.

 

[1911ly]

Your rifle doesn't appear to be a pre-64, so no collector value ... make your rifle what you want it to be. Hell, even if it was pre-64, you're not going to become independently wealthy by selling this rifle ... make your rifle what you want it to be.

I think the trick is to make only one modification at a time so that you can evaluate the progress along the way. Trigger first. Then bedding, free floating the barrel, and recoil pad. New stock? ... maybe if you don't want to work on the original wood stock. Finally, new scope mounted on a solid single piece base.

If you're into reloading, you can fine tune from there. If not, back to the drawing board experimenting with different factory ammo.

Keep us posted on your progress.

This! I would start with the trigger since you have already admitted it sucks. Timney is a great choice.

 

[Bsj425]

I would swap the trigger and open the barrel channel a bit with sand paper and a dowel rod, but I wouldn't go as far as swapping stocks. With a good trigger and free floated barrel it should easily be MOA

 

[Nazgul]

I have a 270 in that model. It is superbly accurate, for 2 shots.

Let it cool a bit and fire again.

They are made for hunting.

Don

 

[Leo]

SInce the action of a model 70 is a forging with a flat bottom, they do well without micro bedding like you would do with tubular action rifles. I recommend an H&S precision or McMillian stock with the aluminum bedding block. Simply set the barreled action in the stock and tighten the screws to 42 in. lb. You never loose your zero with that set up.

The Timney is a really good value for a drop in trigger. I have spent 5 times the money for Davis or Jewel and never thought I really gained much more than the Timney gave me.

Another design feature is that the recoil lug is not a piece on the barrel, so it is entirely possible to mark your barrel/action on the underside and unscrew it. When reinstalling the barrel make sure the proper torque is reached and that your punch marks line up. The headspace will be fine, you will not have to re-ream the chamber. I have done that a couple times when experimenting with new calibers.

The Model 70 action is also very rigid, which is a superior trait. It is not quite as rigid as a true custom benchrest action, like a Stole Panda or Barnard, but does a great job stablizing a heavy barrel without additional support.

 

[Sniper 79]

I have never found a featherlight barrel contour to be a tack driver. They just get too hot, too fast. They are designed to be lighter to carry up and down mountains. I'm not saying that all of your proposed modifications wont help a little, but you probably not going to get the results you are looking for.
If it were me, and the rifle was capable of taking game at ranges you are comfortable with, I'd leave it as is. (I love the profile of those rifles). If you absolutely need more accuracy than what you have now, I'd get another rifle with the features you mentioned and a heavier profile barrel. IMHO

This is where I am at also. If you don't like the way it shoots then get it gone. Plenty of great rifles these days will have great accuracy out of the box. Also agree light weight barrels suck. Hate to see you toss a bunch of money and time out the window. Sell it buy a Savage and hit the range.

 

[autogun]

if you change to a timney trigger and lighter weight stock and keep the originals, you can restore it to original condition if you wish to do so at a later date. I agree with the assessment of triggers above; i'v had good luck with timneys as well. Make sure you know the the weight of those 'light' stocks before you buy. Bell and Carlson were usually heavier than wood in the past. The lightest were Brown Precision but I don't know if that is still the case or not. Anyway, just be sure to determine the actual weight before you buy. Enjoy.

 

[Leo]

A side note with the Timney triggers. The safety engagement slot in the bolt generally needs to be slightly modified. It is not a big deal, a few minutes with a good file is all it takes, and the instructions include the procedure and the measurements.

 

[Dave A]

I know its not very likely but could the barrel be shot out (2500 or more rounds fired)? The first thing I would do is bedding and make sure the barrel is free floating.

Merry Christmas to all.

 

[halfmileharry]

It's possible your barrel needs a good cleaning. It may be copper fouled.
My .243 started opening groups and I was worried that I may have shot out the barrel.
I was told to use Sweets copper solvent before changing out barrels. One good cleaning was all it took to bring it back to being a tack shooter.

 

[spankys56]

I would not mess with it, if you do make sure you keep all the parts to put it back. U.S. made Winchester 70's will be and are sought after guns. Anybody looking to buy one want's it as original as possible. Look into a new cheap starter and dial that in and leave the 70 alone, or work with her some more.

 

[roscott]

Thanks for all the input! Lots of good advice.

I am optimistic with the outcome, and I really think MOA or 1.5 isn't an unreasonable goal. Even from a pencil profile barrel and a featherweight gun. Several manufacturers guarantee MOA with their ultralight rifles (sako, Tikka, Ruger) so hopefully I can make an old Winchester get there too.

The barrel should still have lots of life. Round count is ~300 or less? Copper fouling could be an issue though. I'll definitely treat the barrel before I put her back on the range.

I think I'll take the advice given to start changing one thing at a time. Everyone seems to favor the Timney, and it's the least invasive mod. If that doesn't improve things, at least the rifle will have a more enjoyable trigger!