Howa 1500 .308 owners - bullet question

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  • clfergus

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    I posted in a separate forum that my new Howa 1500, 22 inch barrel with 1 in 10 twist did not care for the Hornady Whitetail 150gr bullet. It shot the 150gr Winchester Powerpoint just fine at less that an inch at 100 yards.

    I killed two doe with these powerpoints this year and while neither ran very far the expansion was not that great. I am on the hunt for a new round and realized this could get costly so wanted to see if anyone had a Howa 1500 in .308 and could share what rounds they like.

    My next up will be 165gr Federal Sierra Gamekings. I read that the 1 in 10 twist like the 165-168gr bullets.
     

    Woobie

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    Yes, 10 twist is pretty fast for .308. I would look for something heavier. I would think those 165's would do better than the 150's. I'm a hand loader, so I really can't speak to any specific factory load.
     

    sloughfoot

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    Accuracy on target and bullet expansion in living flesh are totally different issues. I am really not sure how to respond to your question. 1X10 has been the universal twist for .308 rifles since day one. Plenty accurate from 125 grain to 220 grain bullets. At least for hunting from field positions.

    Will your deer get deader with better accuracy or more expansion? I am not trying to be a wise ass, just really trying to figure out what you think you are lacking....
     
    Last edited:

    Woobie

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    There's a lot of 11.25 and 12 twist .308's out there. Apparently he isn't getting his desired level of accuracy with this load and wants a factory hunting load that will give him the accuracy he seeks.
     

    sloughfoot

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    There's a lot of 11.25 and 12 twist .308's out there. Apparently he isn't getting his desired level of accuracy with this load and wants a factory hunting load that will give him the accuracy he seeks.

    He killed two deer with what he has. That is the basis of my question
     

    oldpink

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    The first thing I can suggest is to buy small quantities of several different game bullets, then tinker with your seating depth (just short of the lands) and neck size your brass for your tinkering if possible.
    There are other tweaks (case neck turning, primer pocket uniforming and deburring, etc.), but those probably won't really gain you that much to be worth the effort compared to the two techniques mentioned.
    As far as powders, the best results are most often gained by using a powder charge that comes closest to completely filling the case, while producing the desired muzzle velocity.
    What one rifle bullet shoots best is not necessarily what shoots the best out of another rifle, even if the other rifle is of the same make, model, and caliber.
    With that last said, one particular bullet specifically intended for big game that I have found to be remarkably consistent out of both my (Ruger M77) and my brother's (Enfield model 1917) .30-06 rifles is the 165 grain Barnes TTSX.
    I normally get five shot groups at 100 yards that are just inside 1" with my off the shelf Ruger with these superb bullets.
    My Ruger took its first ever deer (~150 lbs buck) in November using this bullet, and he didn't go fifty feet with a standard lung shot, so the terminal performance is beyond question.
    The Barnes bullets cost about twice as much as conventional, non-premium bullets intended for hunting big game, but whatever bullets you use for your evaluations won't necessarily be a wasted investment, since you can always use them for plinking, practicing, or target shooting with the ones that don't quite measure up to your standards.
     

    clfergus

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    Accuracy on target and bullet expansion in living flesh are totally different issues. I am really not sure how to respond to your question. 1X10 has been the universal twist for .308 rifles since day one. Plenty accurate from 125 grain to 220 grain bullets. At least for hunting from field positions.

    Will your deer get deader with better accuracy or more expansion? I am not trying to be a wise ass, just really trying to figure out what you think you are lacking....

    Both of the deer I shot were shot in an opening so I was able to watch them closely and see where they entered the woods. Both shots were complete pass troughs and the exit wound with the powerpoint ammo was the size of maybe a dime. There was zero blood trail until I got right up on the deer. Had the shots not been perfect double lung shots and these deer ran more or if I had shot them in the woods at last light recovery might have been a challenge.

    I was hoping to find a factory ammo that would dump more energy in the deer and lead to immediate drop or close to from where the deer was shot. Thats whty I tried the 150gr American Whitetail. I read numerous reviews on how it dropped deer right away and the exit wounds were the size of silver dollars. Compare that to my dime size results with the powerpoints and I figure it must drop more energy in the deer.

    The whole accuracy issue came into play when the American Whitetail 150gr ammo just would not zero at 100 yards. The groups were ok but would never zero. The black dots were the 20 rounds of the American Whitetail. The last 4 shots were with the Winchester Powerpoint 150gr and you can see the first two were a little low and left. One adjustment and we are under an inch right around the bull. The scope is a Nikon Prostaff 4-12X40 with BDC so its not the worst scope ever.

    Thats the background...I can and will use the Powerpoints unless I can find a better hunting round that is this accurate. If I can find a ammo that will expand better and dump more energy while allowing me to see accuracy like below thats what I want.

    attachment.php
     

    clfergus

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    The first thing I can suggest is to buy small quantities of several different game bullets, then tinker with your seating depth (just short of the lands) and neck size your brass for your tinkering if possible.
    There are other tweaks (case neck turning, primer pocket uniforming and deburring, etc.), but those probably won't really gain you that much to be worth the effort compared to the two techniques mentioned.
    As far as powders, the best results are most often gained by using a powder charge that comes closest to completely filling the case, while producing the desired muzzle velocity.
    What one rifle bullet shoots best is not necessarily what shoots the best out of another rifle, even if the other rifle is of the same make, model, and caliber.
    With that last said, one particular bullet specifically intended for big game that I have found to be remarkably consistent out of both my (Ruger M77) and my brother's (Enfield model 1917) .30-06 rifles is the 165 grain Barnes TTSX.
    I normally get five shot groups at 100 yards that are just inside 1" with my off the shelf Ruger with these superb bullets.
    My Ruger took its first ever deer (~150 lbs buck) in November using this bullet, and he didn't go fifty feet with a standard lung shot, so the terminal performance is beyond question.
    The Barnes bullets cost about twice as much as conventional, non-premium bullets intended for hunting big game, but whatever bullets you use for your evaluations won't necessarily be a wasted investment, since you can always use them for plinking, practicing, or target shooting with the ones that don't quite measure up to your standards.

    Adding the TTSX to my list to try.
     

    sgreen3

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    I used a lot of the Hornady 168gr HPBT match bullets when I had my Howa 308. I would just pick a couple different bullets with your favorite flavor of powder and run a ladder test on them and see what performs best.
     

    clfergus

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    I used a lot of the Hornady 168gr HPBT match bullets when I had my Howa 308. I would just pick a couple different bullets with your favorite flavor of powder and run a ladder test on them and see what performs best.

    I am looking at just Factory ammo since I am not setup to reload. I guess down the road I should maybe go that route but I don't shoot that often when I find a good hunting load.
     

    JStarr

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    My Howa 1500 Alpine likes the 155gr. Hornady TAP, but then again... It shoots the Hornady 150gr. Whitetail really well too.
     

    DocIndy

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    My 1500 308 heavy barrel likes the 168 gr AMAX. I was hoping to field test it on a deer this season, but no luck.
     

    ChrisK1977

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    Mine has a 20" barrel and likes everything but Winchester 150 grain PP. was shooting 1 1/2" groups with them. Loves my handloads with 150 grain SST bullets but it really likes 175 grain SMK's(federal gold medals).
     

    sgreen3

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    I am looking at just Factory ammo since I am not setup to reload. I guess down the road I should maybe go that route but I don't shoot that often when I find a good hunting load.

    Then just do the same thing with factory ammo. Granted its a bit more expensive due to having to try a whole box, but it really is the best way at finding what works best. The bigger the sample size the better chance for finding a real nice load.
     

    clfergus

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    Well - My dad is retired so I sent him to the range with a few new rounds to try. First up was 168gr Barnes Vortex TTSX, second was the 165gr Federal Vital-Shock Sierra Gameking BTSP. Both shot well but the Gameking was under an inch with the Barnes being more in the 1.5 to 1.75 inch range.

    Both are more than adequate for a deer rifle and should give a better bullet than the power point in terms of expansion. My dad said that the Federals were buttery smooth to load I assume due to the nickel case?

    Glad I found a load it likes. Thanks for the suggestions.
     
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