SBR vs AR Pistol...Whats the difference?

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  • Hdfb03

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    I was at a gun shop a couple weeks ago and saw an AR pistol for the first time in person, pretty cool. Why do they not need a tax stamp? What makes the short barreled rifle different?
     

    Excalibur

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    Here's the simple fact. An SBR is a registered item. The NFA is a law that you need to obey when making an SBR. A "pistol" is legally a pistol despite what it looks like or even how it is used. If an AR "pistol" is legally declared not a rifle even though it fires a rifle caliber, it isn't. But the moment you declare that you are making it into an SBR, you need to file the paper work for it regardless if you are going to put a stock on it.

    A Brace, black, cheek thing isn't legally a stock, so you can own them and have them on your "pistol"

    Also, there's a grey area on whether or not it is legal to have parts to make an SBR in the same room like if you have a "pistol" and a "stock" that's compatible. Some say you can, some say just simply having the parts can be construed as intent to construct.


    Just look up the laws and be smart about it
     

    DanVoils

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    The difference is the stock or lack thereof. Pretty stupid isn't it? But the ATF defines an SBR as having a barrel less than 16 inches and having a stock (paraphrased). A pistol is the exact same thing except it doesn't have a stock. It can have a Sig Brace or a Shockwave Blade but you can't shoulder it or build it with the intention of shouldering it. All of my SBR's were initially pistols. That way I could make sure everything worked perfectly and as soon as the stamp came in I installed the new buffer tube and stock.
    Dan
     

    T.Lex

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    What's the difference? $200 and the cost of engraving.

    ETA:
    That was too flippant. The stamp is an insurance policy that the BATFE won't change the rules on the definition of a "stock."
     

    Hdfb03

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    The difference is the stock or lack thereof. Pretty stupid isn't it? But the ATF defines an SBR as having a barrel less than 16 inches and having a stock (paraphrased). A pistol is the exact same thing except it doesn't have a stock. It can have a Sig Brace or a Shockwave Blade but you can't shoulder it or build it with the intention of shouldering it. All of my SBR's were initially pistols. That way I could make sure everything worked perfectly and as soon as the stamp came in I installed the new buffer tube and stock.
    Dan

    So basically if I built a pistol, and put a Shockwave Blade on its not illegal. As soon as I put it on my shoulder.....illegal?
     

    T.Lex

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    So basically if I built a pistol, and put a Shockwave Blade on its not illegal. As soon as I put it on my shoulder.....illegal?
    (This is not legal advice to you or anyone else who might be reading, but rather observations concerning the law and BATFE past practice.)

    Probably not. Shouldering is not the problem. You can probably shoulder a bare pistol buffer tube.

    Adding a stock or the equivalent of a stock is the problem.

    Whether the Shockwave blade (or other products) is the equivalent of a stock was an issue until the BATFE decided the Sig brace was not a stock, then decided it might be.

    That's part of why I opted for a $200 insurance policy.
     

    Excalibur

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    It boils down to proving intent when you are using it regardless if you are actually witnessed to shouldering it. There are not enough BATFE agents out there to stake out every single range to see and record if someone is actually shouldering something illegally and calling on them about it. Realistically, no one in law enforcement has the time or willingness to take that kind of effort. That's why they got these letters of opinions that aren't law but they know people will read them and assume the worse.
     

    Hdfb03

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    (This is not legal advice to you or anyone else who might be reading, but rather observations concerning the law and BATFE past practice.)

    Probably not. Shouldering is not the problem. You can probably shoulder a bare pistol buffer tube.

    Adding a stock or the equivalent of a stock is the problem.

    Whether the Shockwave blade (or other products) is the equivalent of a stock was an issue until the BATFE decided the Sig brace was not a stock, then decided it might be.

    That's part of why I opted for a $200 insurance policy.

    Yea that makes sense, so basically paying the $200 is insurance that your pistol cant be labeled as illegal down the road?
     

    seedubs1

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    So much sense it hurts. Friggin idiots made these laws. That's the problem. Hopefully Trump will set some things right, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Cant put a vertical foregrip on a pistol, but you can on an SBR. But an angled foregrip is ok.

    Makes sense, right?
     

    T.Lex

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    Yea that makes sense, so basically paying the $200 is insurance that your pistol cant be labeled as illegal down the road?
    Sorta. It makes your short barreled rifle legal. :)

    I mean, we're kinda saying the same thing here. If you like a short-barreled AR without a stock - really a pistol - don't put the Sig/Shockwave thing on the end and you'll be fine without the stamp. I think that configuration will be "safe" for the foreseeable future.

    For me, those things seem like a compromise down from a "real" stock, which is where my preference lies. So, it was worth it for me to go all in. Plus, then there's the foregrip thing and who knows what other addons will come down the pike that may be disfavored.
     

    Hdfb03

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    Sorta. It makes your short barreled rifle legal. :)

    I mean, we're kinda saying the same thing here. If you like a short-barreled AR without a stock - really a pistol - don't put the Sig/Shockwave thing on the end and you'll be fine without the stamp. I think that configuration will be "safe" for the foreseeable future.

    For me, those things seem like a compromise down from a "real" stock, which is where my preference lies. So, it was worth it for me to go all in. Plus, then there's the foregrip thing and who knows what other addons will come down the pike that may be disfavored.

    Yea that all makes sense then.
     

    DanVoils

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    So basically if I built a pistol, and put a Shockwave Blade on its not illegal. As soon as I put it on my shoulder.....illegal?

    Technically yes. While I'm not a lawyer and the internet is the worse place for legal advice from what I've read it's about "nature of intent". If I build a pistol with a Brace or Blade with the intent of shouldering it then it's not legal. However if I don't build it with the intent it is legal. But if I hand the pistol to someone and they shoulder it without knowing they aren't supposed to it's still legal. Clear as mud right? It's like the BATFE can't decide either. As others have said you can put an AFG on a pistol but not a VFG. (Hmmm I wonder if I can put an AFG on my Glock or other handgun/pistol legally...)
    Dan
     

    POB

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    I live near a bordering state. I can take my pistol across state line but if it were an SBR I would have to get permission to enter. Is just one of the reasons I chose pistol.
     
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