Does an AR really need BUS?

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  • Tactically Fat

    Grandmaster
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    Oct 8, 2014
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    If you were wanting to have ONE AR (yeah, yeah, I know) as a "jack of all trades" type rifle - would you absolutely want BUS on it - or forgo them and just go optics only?

    Currenly I have a Primary Arms min-dot + absolute cowitnessed magpul BUS on a 16" rifle.

    I have also recently invested in a Vortex PST 1-4 scope and a non-QD mount.

    It probably won't work out very well to attempt to co-witness the MBUS through the Vortex for a few reasons. (height being one, and not having room for the rear MBUS to flip up being the other)

    Should I even bother with BUS at all?

    This isn't a high speed low drag gun. I'm definitely not a high speed low drag guy. If I ever do take an AR training class, it'll be something more akin to my non-operator lifestyle. That, and hopefully an RR / Appleseed.

    I DO plan on doing some predator hunting with the gun. That and target shooting.

    So - would you even bother with BUS? Invest in the 45* offsets? Mount a RDS offset near the scope?
     

    Rookie

    Grandmaster
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    Sep 22, 2008
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    Kokomo
    Personally, I mounted an RDS offset from my scope. The reason being, if a coyote is too close for a scope, I still have a chance with a red dot. I don't worry about both optics failing, my life doesn't depend on it. IF both did (and let's face it, the chances are slim to none) I would pack it up and go home.

    ETA - I'm running a 4-16. If I had a 1-4 then I wouldn't bother with anything.

    ETA some more - if I'm running a scope or red dot, then I don't have irons on it. Again, if it fails (and again, the possibility is very slim) I'm done for the day and going home.
     

    T.Lex

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 30, 2011
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    My first AR upper was optic-only. It just didn't feel right not to have irons on it. Got BUIS for each additional one I got.

    Some think I'm not a "gun guy" though, so YMMV.
     

    foszoe

    Grandmaster
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    My first AR upper was optic-only. It just didn't feel right not to have irons on it. Got BUIS for each additional one I got.

    Some think I'm not a "gun guy" though, so YMMV.

    I Agree WITH T.LEX.

    Of course I still have a fear of electric car window with no crank, an electronic safe with no tumbler, a keyless start.

    You get the idea
     

    Excalibur

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    May 11, 2012
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    If you plan to use it in a fight, most definitely regardless on how "durable" and "combat proven" your optic is. Always have BUIS. If it's your range rifle and you just shoot for ****s and giggles, that's up to you. If you're the US Marines, then your rifle may or may not have rear sights during training vids when showing off the ACOGs and you might be the guy who ends up with the sorta ok KAC flip up sights to use when not enough ACOGs to go around.
     

    Heavy

    Marksman
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    No operator here either, but I'd think if you have them already why not put them on and zero. Just cause. Unless they might end up on a different rifle. Even though the pst will be on a non qd mount, who knows you might be out and the zombie apocalypse finally kicks off you drop the rifle and break the glass on that pst. But since you're such a good prepper you have a screwdriver to take the scope off and waste all those pesky brain eaters!
     

    JStang314

    Sharpshooter
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    Jun 8, 2011
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    For me it depends on the optic. If I have a red dot or other optic that is on/off only I like to have them. But if the optic has a constant reticle hat doesn't depend on batteries the I don't. For example I had a Vortex Sparc and ran them but switched to a SpitfireAR that has a black reticle that is there with or without illumination and I don't run irons with it. another rifle I have a Strikeeagle 1-6 on and don't feel the need for irons.
     

    Gabriel

    Grandmaster
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    Jun 3, 2010
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    I will say that I have gone through some obstacle courses/shooting drills during training where my Aimpoint PRO was shut off when I got to the shooting stage and used my BUIS. I must have bounced the rifle around enough to shut it off. It has happened a few times, so it re-enforces my opinion that backups are a good idea.

    If I were setting up a medium range rifle for coyote hunting or something similar, I wouldn't bother.
     

    MCgrease08

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 14, 2013
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    I lean in the opposite direction. If I only had one "do-it-all" rifle than I would go iron sights only.

    I will admit I don't have much trigger time behind a scope or a red dot, but it seems that iron sites would be more versitle for a wider rangle of uses. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable or equipped to defend my home with a scoped rifle, just as I likely wouldn't be proficient hitting a coyote at 300 yards with just a red dot.

    Knowing how to properly use iron sights would help in both of those situation.
     

    Alpo

    Grandmaster
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    Sep 23, 2014
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    My preferred AR has an A2 front sight. I don't know if that is from tradition or comfort, but it's what I prefer. I've always looked at optics as a point of failure. Batteries wear out. Rifles get dropped fairly often. When you need them most, Murphy shows up. So, rigid iron sights give me warm fuzzies.

    For a rear sight, I like the Daniels Defense 1.5 style.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
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    Feb 11, 2008
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    I have BUIS on all of my 5.56 guns. Optics and electronics fail and get beat up, the irons less so. I have flipped up BUIS numerous times, during optic failure. It's an option I wouldn't be without.

    Icing on the cake is co-witnessing the irons to verify the dot is zero'ed.
     

    Tactically Fat

    Grandmaster
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    Maybe I need two rifles... Ahem.

    But what has brought me around to asking this particular question in this thread is finances.

    Finding the upper that I want at a somewhat affordable price has become/is becoming difficult. So then my thoughts ranged to just buying a new barrel (16-18" .223 Wylde - ahem), having that installed, then putting the optic on.

    Then if I do that I'll end up having almost an entire rifle's worth of take-off parts...

    I hate making decisions. I definitely suffer from paralysis by analysis.
     

    Alpo

    Grandmaster
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    I had a neighbor come by the other day and discuss the pluses and minuses of stainless v chrome-lined, build v buy. I took a look at Palmetto State and they had a stainless upper on sale for $189. A2 front sight.

    Is that the best product out there? For the price, the question was almost not relevant. They also had a blem phosphate barreled up for the same price.
     

    Tactically Fat

    Grandmaster
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    I had a neighbor come by the other day and discuss the pluses and minuses of stainless v chrome-lined, build v buy. I took a look at Palmetto State and they had a stainless upper on sale for $189. A2 front sight.

    Is that the best product out there? For the price, the question was almost not relevant. They also had a blem phosphate barreled up for the same price.

    Yes indeed PSA has some absolutely fantastic prices.

    However, the CC processor they utilize has been compromised for a few years now and they refuse to rectify it. I don't want my CC info stolen. Again. So, therefore, I refuse to shop wtih PSA until they can get their act together. And I don't want to go through getting a temp/dummy/1-use CC # set up just for the purchase.
     

    Tactically Fat

    Grandmaster
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    I'm not sure I understand the CC problem. Is it the same if you phone in the order?

    Many many many people have had their CC/Debit information stolen due to the company that PSA uses to process the CC/Debit transactions. They've some how been compromised.

    PSA refuses to believe it and/or switch companies. The processing company refuses to fix it.

    There are semi-regular threads on several of the firearms-related sub-forums on Reddit that talk about it.

    It should still be an issue when phoning in an order, yes.
     

    EvilKidsMeal

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    I just put a 1-4x on my midlength with an A2 FSP. I have a rear BUS, mostly because I had it from the red dot I replaced with the scope, but also because of the fixed front.

    I also have a non-qd P.E.P.R. I am going to cut a wrench down, probably to fit in my Magpul grip in case the scope needs to come off. Will it ever need to come off? Probably not, but at least I have the option. I like the idea of having a BUS. I do on all mine.
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    I have a dedicated night use only AR that has a red dot and an IR laser. There's no need for back up sights as I already have 2 means to aim. My IR laser primary and my red dot if the laser or my NVG's go down.
    every other AR I have I have back ups on.
     
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