Linkpimp... Some scope ?

[ROLEXrifleman]

How much do you know about scopes? That could be a long write up for me!

Here's some pics of a write up I did years back on the hide. I think back in 05'. These were some loose scopes I had in my safe that were not mounted so I did acomparison. As you can see theres insane diffrences in turrets, reticles, magnification, clarity and $$$
I'm kinda feeling you out to see how long my post has to be.

Mods, feel free to move this to a diffrent section if needed but I think we would do the long gun section a bit of dis service if we didnt have a few good articles on glass. JMO

 

[linkpimp]

Thank you for all the pictures on the different scopes, very cool..

This is kind of how I’m looking at things at the moment regarding scopes..
Throughout all of my research both (limited hands on) but tons of reading this is my conclusion / How I see things in my world.

S&B and the Premier are renowned for their crystal clear glass

USO's are renowned for their features and customizability

Nightforces are renowned for their durability.


Now as much as I want and have can get the S&B don't I wont a Nightforces because they are hands down the best bang for the buck with more than adequately clear glass, positive adjustments, good reticle choices and excellent durability?.

I honestly don't know yet.. I’m spending tons of time on the hide now reading and still trying to figure it all out..

I’m really looking for a scope that I thread the needle at 100 yards, see the bullet strike the paper at 800 + yards and yet still provide decent view at 1000.. Yes I’m asking for a lot here!..

I really do appreciate the pics and the great advice, I am learning.. Please keep it coming..


Thank you again..

 

[42769vette]

if it helps linkpimp i know exactly what you are going through. before deciding on my nf i cant tell you how many posts on every gun site i knew of i read trying to make to right choice. there are so many options out there and picking the one that best suites your needs if a job and you dont want to buy twice o a scope like that.

plus to further dificult things i knew one person who had a uso, the rest of the scopes i had ever looked through. so i feel your pain bud

 

[shibumiseeker]

Also keep in mind that if you want a scope that will do 100 yards as well as 1000 yards you need one that has enough MOA travel to handle the differences. Sure, a rail with 20 or 40 MOA of slope built in can make a scope with less travel be able to get out longer distances, but then it makes it less capable at closer ranges. Since even in the best scopes aren't as good when they are near the limits of travel, you want a scope/rail combination that puts the MOA travel near center at the ranges you will typically shoot.

FWIW, with ANY of the scopes you mentioned you can't really go wrong, because even if you decide that the features don't work for you, they have excellent resale value.

 

[ROLEXrifleman]

Thank you for all the pictures on the different scopes, very cool..

Your welcome, all it takes is money

S&B and the Premier are renowned for their crystal clear glass

You have to look at the big picture. S&B is battle prven, built like a tank and has crystal clear glass. With the exception of Hensoldt there is nothing else on par with it. And the entire PM II line is a 34mm tube so you will get tons of elevation adjustment.
Premier is teh new kid on the block about 3 years old. They were formed by the son ofthe founder of Premier reticle, the company that use to be contracted by both S&B and Leupold to create the mil reticles in the scopes. When the founder died, his son ( who was probably tired of contracts with the gov. and 3rd parties, stole some engeniers from S&B and founded the company. HHmmmm so if you have the guys that built S&B working for you that means the scope is gonna be similar.....

Handle an S&B and all your questions will be answered, handle a Hensoldt and you'll be trying to igure out how to come up with $3.5K

USO's are renowned for their features and customizability

USO's are renowned becuase they're the only "high quality" scope made in teh USA. and that's a good thing cause your gonna have a problem with it at some point. Had two USO that went bad within teh 1st year of owning. Got them repaired and sold them off.

Nightforces are renowned for their durability.

NF I do believe is the best bang for your buck. Although not anywhere as robust as the S&B it's a damn good scope. is there better out there, YES, and it will come with a price. Is there worse, YES a lot worse.

Now as much as I want and have can get the S&B don't I wont a Nightforces because they are hands down the best bang for the buck with more than adequately clear glass, positive adjustments, good reticle choices and excellent durability?.

True, true and true. But are you only saying this because of the arm chair qurter back threads posted out there o rbecuase you truley uunderstand?

I honestly don't know yet..

Truer words have never been spoken!

I’m spending tons of time on the hide now reading and still trying to figure it all out..

Take teh hide, as with all forums, with a grain of salt. You must sift through teh BS and extrac tthe info needed and apply ocordingly. If been there since 2004 and laugh at about 70% of what's written. Then again, I might be a 13yr old girl from Lao typing away, so what does that tell you about teh internet!

I’m really looking for a scope that I thread the needle at 100 yards, see the bullet strike the paper at 800 + yards and yet still provide decent view at 1000.. Yes I’m asking for a lot here!..

No your not, you just described a Leupold for $1K




OK.... can i be frank now? Rhetorical question, I'm gonna tell you what I think anway.

Everything we went over up there is common knowledge anyone with a keyboard can get. No rocket science there. Here's where we get into teh nuts and bolts.


On tube diameter:

Tube diameter is what dictated teh amount of internal travel a scope has. It has no measurable effect light gathering or anything like that. Every scope should have listed in their spec section the amount of travel for both windage and elevation in MOA or MIL. The higherthe # the more travel

On Turrets:

Turrets are like ****, they come in all shapes and sizes. Some are rediculously big, others hard to find. What I may liek you may not. But lets not get past their function. As long as mommys boob gives milk mission acomplished, so as long as the turrets adjust windage and elevation mission acomplished. the question is HOW does it acomplish the mission. turrets will be adjust in either MIL or MOA, thsi is a huge factor when it comes to the reticle and mathmatical equations. if you had no idea there was math involved, DO NOTGET ANY TYPE OF RANGE FINDING RETICLE, you'll either get lost or it will be a feature you'll never use. With that lets take MOA turrets. They cann adjust the reticles in 1/8, 1/4 or 1/2 or I've even seen a few 1 moa incraments. How does that effect you, well... what are you tryng to do with teh scope? If knock flies wings off at 100 is your thing then 1/8 is needed as anything else and 1 click will take you off the fly completely. Trying to hit a tank? 1/8 will take you forever to adjust for, and that's if you have enough travel!
And we haven even gotten into Zero stops or paralax controlls, it's complicated.

On Objective lens:

Another myth is the bigger the lens the brighter the scope... WRONG. The objective lens diameter aids in one area, FIELD OF VIEW. As magnification increases the field of view decreases, that simple. Now, if your shooting a static target field of view is nott he most importatnt factor in teh world. Shooting at something moving and have a small field of view, you'll be lost afterthe 1stround and you might not get a 2nd shot off b4 it's one. Again, what your purpose.. that should aid in teh decision. And the larger the diameter, the higher the rings/base need to be pulling your face off the rifle.
again, this is tip of the iceberge stuff.

On magnification:

High magnification:
For killing paper
stacking bullets in the same hole
For static targets
SMALL field of view
Harder to control
Wash out on edges of view eveident
clarity and defenition begin to slighty diminish

Low magnification:
Larger field of view
Makes target reaquestion easier
pinpoint shots not as easy
Killing man size target no problem
Defenition clarity high
Extrenal forces do not effect hold as much

Then theres teh question of Fixed or variable power. i'll leave you with this though. There's a reason Snipers use fixed 10 or 16 power scopes or variables with a max of 16.
There's alsoa reason why bench shooters use rediculously hign magnification scopes.

You wanne be a bench shooter or play commando?

We havent touched on reticle choices, illimintaed vs non, FFP vs SFP, paralax or non paralax adjustable.... tons of other factors, nor have we addressed the ones above with any depth.

Fact is I already know your gonna get a NF, the funny part is while it will fit the need only out of of coincidence and not true knowledge. But we all have to start somewhere. And no one can hate you for havingteh $ to start near the top. You my friend are a fine example of what the Snipers Hide crew calls more $$$$$ than Brains. That's not a flame, just an observation.

Again, I'm on your side... so don'ttake anything i said as a bash.

 

[shibumiseeker]

On tube diameter:

Tube diameter is what dictated teh amount of internal travel a scope has. It has no measurable effect light gathering or anything like that. Every scope should have listed in their spec section the amount of travel for both windage and elevation in MOA or MIL. The higherthe # the more travel

Just a minor addendum: The larger diameter the tube the better it handles heavier recoiling guns (assuming everything else is equal with the internals).

 

[linkpimp]

if it helps linkpimp i know exactly what you are going through. before deciding on my nf i cant tell you how many posts on every gun site i knew of i read trying to make to right choice. there are so many options out there and picking the one that best suites your needs if a job and you dont want to buy twice o a scope like that.

plus to further dificult things i knew one person who had a uso, the rest of the scopes i had ever looked through. so i feel your pain bud

Actually it does.. Thanks. I just feel like one day I know I wont and the next day I'm not at the same place and I question myself out of it..

Frustrating but at the same time a great learning experience for me to..

Also keep in mind that if you want a scope that will do 100 yards as well as 1000 yards you need one that has enough MOA travel to handle the differences. Sure, a rail with 20 or 40 MOA of slope built in can make a scope with less travel be able to get out longer distances, but then it makes it less capable at closer ranges. Since even in the best scopes aren't as good when they are near the limits of travel, you want a scope/rail combination that puts the MOA travel near center at the ranges you will typically shoot.

FWIW, with ANY of the scopes you mentioned you can't really go wrong, because even if you decide that the features don't work for you, they have excellent resale value.

Exactly.. I've read (again I read to much) but most of the new long range shooters start out with to much magnification... so again it comes down to more reading and asking the guys to do this all the time..

That's one of the pluses for sure at least they will hold most of there resale value.

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Your welcome, all it takes is money.

I wish I had more of it that’s for sure.. You really do have a sweet collection of tack drivers there.. Very impressive for sure..

You have to look at the big picture. S&B is battle prven, built like a tank and has crystal clear glass. With the exception of Hensoldt there is nothing else on par with it. And the entire PM II line is a 34mm tube so you will get tons of elevation adjustment. .

This is where I get caught up on ok who knows what when I’m reading on the hide.. I thought the S&B were being used by our boys, I thought they where tough, but then I started to read up in the reviews and was like (what??) AAahhhaaaa OK.. maybe I was wrong.. (hey it happens all the time).. Remember it not easy being the newbie.. Hahaaa..

You wanne be a bench shooter or play commando? .

Cant I do both??

Fact is I already know your gonna get a NF, the funny part is while it will fit the need only out of of coincidence and not true knowledge. But we all have to start somewhere. And no one can hate you for havingteh $ to start near the top. You my friend are a fine example of what the Snipers Hide crew calls more $$$$$ than Brains. That's not a flame, just an observation.

Again, I'm on your side... so don'ttake anything i said as a bash.

Ok.. first and foremost.. Thank you.. Thank you so much for taking the time and write all of that out.. I'll be saving this doc for future reference for sure.. It was all very much appreciated and will make a great reference foundation for me..

Now.. about the above comment.. You know this is one of those times in my life that I think back with my dad.. Dad I’m going to do this and this is why, he’ll say son NO.. do this and this is why..(I didn't take his advice) That story progress on for many of years (15 -23).. I think I was 32 years old before I finally called my old man and told him he was right!, the old bastard was right on just about everything.. It was then and then I realized that with age / experience comes wisdom…

I know what you’re saying and I hear it load and clear sir, it’s really, really appreciated…

I just don't know what I’m going to do yet to be completely honest with you.. One day its this, one day it that.. I do know I wasn’t planning on spending 10K on this rifle package I can tell you that.. and Yes I know what each one of your AW are worth stock.. so I can only imagine your trying to guide me the right direction..

I just don't know what scope I’ll be getting.. I do know that I need to sell of a few rifles thou and that’s going a take a week or two. I wont really have any money in my hands until then, which in the long run will give more time to review and hopefully get behind some of these bad boys..


I’ll be sure to let know you know when I have some cash in my hands.. even if I get the dreaded NF scope Hahahaaa I’ll still be looking for some advice on what features I’m going to want, assuming there available..

Thank you again for your time and the great write up..

Link.

 

[ambushunter]

Another forum to check out reviews if your not on it already is longrangehunting. I have a NF and love it I also have a USO and love it. Two diffrent scopes that each has its purpose. The NF is on a bench rest gun. Never even looked through S&B. But I don't think I am missing anything. I guess you have to really decide what the purpose of this rifle is going to be used for, and go from there. NF, USO, S&B you won't be disapointed. Just make sure you get enough mag for the job you want to do. This is where a big diffrence in a bench gun and comadoa gun come in play.

 

[Litlratt]

Congrats on the purchase of your new rifle and welcome to the world of long range shooting.
I'm not a serious tactical marksman so I'll attempt to hide my ignorance of such things by remaining silent. However, I am a serious long range competitor, regardless of my sometimes mediocre performances.

At times you'll find long range shooting to be very rewarding and at others, very frustrating and/or humbling. I strongly suggest you hook up with an experienced shooter/s in your area for as many range sessions as possible. You can read forums until your blind, but your inexperience will normally prevent you from filtering the good from the bad advice.

It appears that you have a desire to shoot in NRA type long range matches. Your rig would put you in F Class, IMO the equivalent of bench rest prone for the serious competitors.
Your rifle/ammo combination is as critical to accuracy as the rifles' inherent ability. It won't be any more accurate with a good $3500 scope than it will be with a good $300 scope. Glass merely enhances your ability to aim more precisely.

Mother Nature will be your most difficult obstacle. Knowing the value of wind for a given cartridge and adjusting for any changes is very difficult and comes with experience. Switching back and forth from a .308 to a .300 Winmag at 1000 yards isn't recommended for the inexperienced shooter.

Once again, congrats on your purchase and once you've decided on a scope, get out and shoot the !@#$ out of it.

 

[42769vette]

regardless of my sometimes mediocre performances.

RARE mediocre performances