AK Accuracy

[CoyoteCreekGuns]

Group,

I know that many have said that AK's, due to their design (primarily their long recharging handle length, etc) are not very accurate. So my question is this how not very accurate are they.. In other words, what would average group sizes be at 50, 100, 150, 200 and 200+ yards? What is the realistic "accuracy" distance using body mass targets (Not looking for competition shooting but zombies etc.)

Thanks,

[techres]

Realistic, that is to say, from the shoulder or ground instead of the shooting sled?

Up to 100 yards you can do head & shoulders under stress.
Up to 250 yards you can do body shots.

Not stressed an AK will commonly do 2-4 MOA but most shooters I have seen are 4-8 MOA in practice which is functional under 100 yards really.

[OneBadV8]

I always thought this was because of the distance the bullet travels before it starts tumbling. Rumor I've heard is it tumbles sooner than 5.56 (.223).

So, I'm curious too about this. FYI, if you get really bored there are a lot of youTube videos on AR vs AK which usually talk about the round a lot.

[techres]

Originally Posted by OneBadV8

I always thought this was because of the distance the bullet travels before it starts tumbling. Rumor I've heard is it tumbles sooner than 5.56 (.223).

So, I'm curious too about this. FYI, if you get really bored there are a lot of youTube videos on AR vs AK which usually talk about the round a lot.

Tumbling? No.

The Ak is built for reliability and to do it sacrifices accuracy. The slop that creates the magic, also curses it as well. The ammo only compounds this.

But, the reality is that AK's are often more accurate than the hands they are in. They are not a nail driver, but they are a hoot.

[shooter521]

Originally Posted by techres

The ammo only compounds this.

IME, the small-bore AKs are inherently more accurate than their 7.62x39 cousins due to caliber/ammo, and are also easier to shoot well because of their reduced recoil. My 5.45 AKs will shoot right with my M4 out to 100 yards; I just have to work harder to achieve those results because of the AK's comparatively lousy sights and trigger.

And yeah, they're a hoot.

[techres]

Originally Posted by shooter521

IME, the small-bore AKs are inherently more accurate than their 7.62x39 cousins due to caliber/ammo, and are also easier to shoot well because of their reduced recoil. My 5.45 AKs will shoot right with my M4 out to 100 yards; I just have to work harder to achieve those results because of the AK's comparatively lousy sights and trigger.

And yeah, they're a hoot.

True, I have seen superb shooting with AK-74's. My first Appleseed I watched a guy rifleman with one and prove that it could be done. The AK-47's just aren't up to that level though.

But they are still fun and a great SHTF rifle.

[sporter]

A good shot with an AK can pop cans all day @ 50 yards while standing.

Ak's are more accurate than ignorant people give them credit for.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by sporter

A good shot with an AK can pop cans all day @ 50 yards while standing.

Ak's are more accurate than ignorant people give them credit for.

And all night....

Nice to see a smart and mature discussion on this subject.
Not all AK's are equal. Neither are all shooters.
A higher quallity rifle makes a big differance but some times the cheap ones get lucky.

I have a yugo m70 full stock with a new non chrome barrel that gets 1-2 inch groups at 100yrds. But yugo's are known to be more accurate as they are heavyier and use a thicker non chrome barrel. less flex gives it more accuracy. But my WASR gets a crappy 3-4 inch groups at 100yrds. Its cheaper made and much more loose. The barrel is ok at best and the gas block is caneted giving the illusion that the sight is to. But the sights are strait. this is just a quick comparison to stimulate further discussion......

[smokingman]

Thursday, November 6, 2008. Davilla, TX DAR - late afternoon near dusk. Appleseed shoot

Shooter - SNAITF

Target - Army "D" silhouette "Dog Target".

Distance - 700 yards known distance

Rifle - 7.62x39 1977 Romanian "G" AKM kit from Cope's (when they had 'em) on a Global Trades $50 "blem" US receiver - built by me with the appropriate 922r compliance parts - my "trunk gun". Barrel is like new. Standard TAPCO single hook trigger group. Total cost to build was $250. "Battlefield Pickup" look. Rear iron sights cranked up to 600 meters. BSZ was set at 300 yards earlier in the day (prolly should have done some more math to make it meters - but I was in public and we all know public math is always ugly).

Match conditioning: I did remove the cleaning rod because I've heard that it can impart some level of vibration/harmonics on the barrel. Oh, I also removed the slanted muzzle brake (enough US compliance parts were on the rifle at the time it was fired for those concerned with such things – thank you).

Ammo - Barnaul (Monarch) 7.62x39 123 gr. FMJ bought the week before on sale at Academy. $.16 per round.

Position: Stage 2 Open Legged Sitting. I first tried a prone position but when prone there was a rise in the ground that obscured the targets. I like sitting anyway. Hammy, worn leather sling for support.

Number of rounds fired: 5 shots at "Rifleman's Cadence" (rapid).

Results: The rounds actually hit the D target I was aiming at. Four hits in the "3" scoring area – the fifth round is lost to eternity. 2 shots impacted on the lower left side of the target an inch apart from each other under the black portion of the silhouette. Two shots impacted on the right side of the target an inch apart from each other at the same level at the "V" - just outside the black The two groups were 24" apart = 3.42 MOA, excluding the 5th round of course.

Priceless: Knowing you can nail enemies 700 yards away with your beater, $250 AK "that's only good out to 200 yards" because of what you learned in the Appleseed Program.


Each bullet apparently destabilized from loss of energy at that distance and went through the target sideways aka keyholed. At least the bullet impacts were consistent - each bullet point outline in the target was pointing at 8 o'clock! They did penetrate the plywood backer and would definitely ruin an enemy's whole day if he were hit by one of those projectiles. 3 IIT witnesses signed my target record (I’ll add a pic of it soon - I couldn't keep the "Dog" target - they are large and expensive so we paste them up and re-use them). It was near dark and we had to paste up the target and get back to the line. My camera was about 700 yards away from the known distance range - I'd left it in the trunk of my car.


I almost chose not to shoot at that 700 yard distance. My AR was "having split personality issues" at the time - lower receiver assembly being used by one shooter, upper assembly with ACOG by another shooter. The AK was there in its case, but I had my doubts about it at that range. But there was ammo for it, there were magazines and the rifle was calling out “just give me a chance”. I could hardly discern the targets - but how often does a city boy get the opportunity to shoot at 700 yards? "I had to get it on!" I waited until one shooter was finished and took his spot at the very far right of the line so I could aim at the right edge of that long white blur 700 yards away. I couldn't even see the black area of the target. I took a SWAG at setting the rear sight elevation to 600 meters and I placed the focused, crude front sight post on the same blurry spot at the far right of the long white blur each time. Got my NPOA and went through the 6 steps of firing the shot at a rifleman’s cadence.

No one was more surprised at the results than me! (I did have "Lord of War" on while I was packing for boot camp. Maybe that was it. ) It may have been a one time fluke, but I look forward to the opportunity to attempt repeat the results in the future. Perhaps next I’ll go for a full known distance AQT with it next time. I’m even having thoughts about a Saiga .308 with a 21.5” barrel.

An ak is plenty accurate.

[U.S. Patriot]

I agree that a .223/5.56 platforms are by far more accurate then the AK47 platforms. I chose the AK for there reasons.

1. At the time they where cheap, along with the ammo.
2. They where in my opinion built for reliability being their primary attribute.
3. High capacity
4. Highly leathel round

While in the service the M16A2, was my favorite weapon to fire. I can not bring myself to pay $700+ for any rifle. The cheapest I have found 5.56 localy is $10. For $5 more I can buy 50 rounds of 9mm, or .40. That's one reason my AK is now a safe queen. The fact that Wolf is now up to almost $8 a box. I personaly would rather have a good .223 bolt action for long distance shooting.