Another toy to day dream about

[Bill of Rights]

Originally Posted by bigcraig

BoR, the chances of you getting ANY components from these folks is next to impossible, look where those folks are.

As far as the import-ability, the ATF has some very silly rules regarding the sporting-ability of gun like this. Look at the Saiga 12, 20, 410, those guns are only allowed in the country due to the way they are configured, ie: no pistol grip, low capacity magazine.

Also, the .410 round itself just isn't my cup of tea, as the ammo itself is not very versatile and is just as expensive, if not more, than 12ga.

Now all that being said, and add to the fact I DO have a converted Saiga 12 comming soon along with a 20rd drum for it, I AM an AR guy through and through and if a good quality AR12 with good capacity were available, I would buy one in a heartbeat.

Also, VUPD is correct on the NFA aspect of building one to short barrel configuration.

For example: If you could get the parts to build this, which will be next to impossible, same goes for getting the specs to to it on your own, here are your options and things to remember.

1) The gun would have to have an 18" barrel, remember it is still a shotgun.
2) You could build it into an AOW using a virgin AR lower, but it will cost you the $200 making tax. But remember, in IN it cannot have a buttstock, ever, it will be just like my Serbu, pistol grip only. So it will be a semi-auto .410 pistol.


For me the end result is just not worth the effort, as I am just not a fan of the .410 round. But please, don't let my feelings or remarks stop you from achieving your goal to have this configuration, it is neat, just not for me.

Good Luck
Craig

Craig,

Thanks for the reply. You have a very valid point about where the company is. However, I took my AR mag and visited WalMart a short while ago and discovered, as I suspected, that the .410 will easily fit in a standard AR mag. The feed lips would need to be made a tad wider, but it would work, both in the width of the round and it's length.
Re: your comments on the ATF rules re: import of Saiga and others: True, they do, but those are full firearms. My question is more focused on importing of firearm parts, ie a completed upper assembly. Obviously, we've already addressed doing so from this company, so that point is probably moot.

As for NFA, I understand that if the bore is smooth, no shoulder stock is possible under IN law. Rifling the bore, as for slugs, might remove that limitation, but I'd imagine it's probably a major bitch to do, more so to do well, At least in a .410 configuration, we'd be well below the .50 cal limit that would constrain 12 (and 20?) gauge by caliber. I'd further imagine that firing pellet ammo through a rifled bore would be rather tough on the lands and grooves.

I respect that you don't want it in .410. I also appreciate your advice and help in bringing this to fruition. Hopefully, I'm not the only one who wants to do this, or it might become too costly to ever happen.

VUPDBlue, you mentioned we could do this... I'm presuming you have the tools (and more importantly, the expertise) to make it happen. Has anyone else spoken up with interest in designing a .410 (or 20g) AR upper? Further, Craig mentioned the $200 tax to build it-would that be applicable to any firearm or just to the ones restricted under NFA?

ETA: Found another youtube link that might be helpful as it shows more. It seems to be more about cleaning than firing this beastie.

You Tube

Thanks for both your help, gentlemen.

Blessings,
B

[VUPDblue]

VUPDBlue, you mentioned we could do this... I'm presuming you have the tools (and more importantly, the expertise) to make it happen. Has anyone else spoken up with interest in designing a .410 (or 20g) AR upper? Further, Craig mentioned the $200 tax to build it-would that be applicable to any firearm or just to the ones restricted under NFA?

I don't have the tooling required to machine a bolt, or finish a barrel from a blank, but I'm confident that I could do it, given access to the proper tooling. As for the NFA, you'd only need to pay the tax if you were going to build this rifle in such a fashion that it was either a SBR or AOW.