gun broker .com

[Fenway]

Thank you very much Michiana for gracing our pages and allowing us to transfer guns through you for $20. Since INGO is such a small part of your business I'm surprised you are so upset that you can no longer post whatever you want for sale on here.

If you don't think $1 a day or about 1 tansfer and 1/2 per month is worth it to you to reach thousands of Hoosier Gun Owners I'm sorry about that. Our advertising rates are incredibly reasonable given the amount of traffic this site receives. If you think I'm "all about the money" like another FFL on here for asking people who use this site to make money to $tep up think again. I have spent hundreds of hours turning INGO into what it is and for a long time I lost money running this site and giving us all a place to hang out. INGO has grown to be so big I need to run it like a business to keep it going just like you run your FFL. You have made it clear $1 / day is not worth it to you. Fine, please move on.

Best of luck to you on GunBroker!

Fenway

Originally Posted by Michiana

Personally speaking I have tried to do a service to my fellow INGO members and offer them first shot at anything I have to sell at prices below those I list on Gunbroker and am now told I have to pay $360 a year for that "privilege”. Being a very small FFL dealer specializing in transfers I do not sell enough to warrant that kind of “advertising cost” while other non licensed individual are continually holding so called group buys on INGO and raking in the bucks with no licenses and zero overhead costs.

Ninety percent of my customers are from Gunbroker so that site must be offering people some value for their money or they wouldn’t keep buying there. I can make another ten dollars on a LPK by selling on Gunbroker vs. selling locally to INGO members so why do I want to pay thirty dollars a month for that privilege? Maybe the storefront dealers sell enough to cover this cost but not us little guys. The way I see it no longer listing on the classified page INGO members will be paying more and I will be making more.

As people try to explain to the members crying about high prices on Gunbroker.com or the INGO Classified Section, you don’t have to buy it if you don’t like the price. If people are abusing the INGO site by constantly reselling guns at a profit they are running a business without a business license and are not collecting IN sales tax. If they are selling guns on a regular basis they are probably also putting themselves in a precarious situation with the BATF by conducting a gun selling business without having a FFL.

[oldfb]

Hey everyone! I know I am a newbie here but I felt strong enough to support the cause. I like most everyone hear and most seem to tolerate my goofiness. I have one question about values. When I tried to trade or sell my xd there were tons of people willing to offer $500 for my gun 600 rounds of wwb jhp 9mm which I just saw selling here for $200 for 500 rounds plus all the extras. Or an sks maybe worth $250. Now are you seriously telling me those were fellow INGO members trying to help me? Or was I supposed to donate it for charity. I talked with many others who I felt had they been closer or if it was a different gun we would be dealing. I am not crying but please show me one very clean low round count xd9sc for $300 to $350 gun and mags alone and I will buy that one also. I am all about fair trade but most offers are sent PM because they would show how the sender is trying to hose the seller. I have some people I know here that are honest and very helpful but in all things the bad apples tend to ruin the fun. One guy is selling pawnshop guns and while he is a nice guy. I just think flipping gun after gun is a business and should be treated as such. Fenway again I thank you and commend your site. I just wish more people were willing to give the newbs a heads up rather than the high hard one.

[longbarrel]

Originally Posted by oldfb

Hey everyone! I know I am a newbie here but I felt strong enough to support the cause. I like most everyone hear and most seem to tolerate my goofiness. I have one question about values. When I tried to trade or sell my xd there were tons of people willing to offer $500 for my gun 600 rounds of wwb jhp 9mm which I just saw selling here for $200 for 500 rounds plus all the extras. Or an sks maybe worth $250. Now are you seriously telling me those were fellow INGO members trying to help me? Or was I supposed to donate it for charity. I talked with many others who I felt had they been closer or if it was a different gun we would be dealing. I am not crying but please show me one very clean low round count xd9sc for $300 to $350 gun and mags alone and I will buy that one also. I am all about fair trade but most offers are sent PM because they would show how the sender is trying to hose the seller. I have some people I know here that are honest and very helpful but in all things the bad apples tend to ruin the fun. One guy is selling pawnshop guns and while he is a nice guy. I just think flipping gun after gun is a business and should be treated as such. Fenway again I thank you and commend your site. I just wish more people were willing to give the newbs a heads up rather than the high hard one.

I will say that when you are first introduced to this site it is easy to become a victim of circumstance, but if you can find someone to help you along the way it makes it much easier. I have tried to post things on the classifieds and so far to no avail. A lot of low ball offers and stuff I don't want and is clearly stated in the adds. Anyway, as far as gunbroker.com is concerned it is a joke. I know that people are going to get mad and probably leave more negative rep points for exercising my first amendment rights, but if you know anything about auction law, then you know it is a joke. In my mind it is a lot like e-bay. You can't have a no reserve auction if the starting price is $425.00. $425.00 is the reserve. Also, people can run bids up, ghost bid, whatever. Once again, I am apologizing ahead of time for exercising my 1st amendment rights. I think that Fenway, even though I don't know him/her personally has done a great thing for the people and firearms owners of Indiana. The time and money that it takes to do that, I'm sure is extensive. Also, there are a lot of informative people and threads on this site.

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

Here is my take on Gunbroker. If I list gun "A" at $700. People from Indiana would say "thats ridiclous I'm not paying that!". While someone lets say, in Idaho might say "holy crap, thats a deal!" When it boils down to it, it's about the money. Example, I listed a pistol I had refinished on GB. The reserve price was set a little higher due to it being refinished. It went for $125.00 over reserve price. There's no way me or anyone else around here would pay that. A fella on the east coast did. It's called maximizing profit. Things are worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Instead of looking on GB to see what things are listed for, click through some of the members and see what things sold for. Listings are one thing, items that actually sold are another. I can list a Taurus 1911 for $1000.00. It will sit there for a while. Click around and find the ones that sold to see what they are really going for. My

[Michiana]

Mike, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my concerns. I think you should have mentioned that on several occasions in private IM’s I told you I would seriously consider becoming an advertising member when I see even enforcement of these new rules. People only have to go to the Group Buy forum to see what I am talking about. Group buys are great for the members but a person doing this at a profit needs to be in business like Karl and myself.

You like to imply that I am getting rich on $20 transfers but in reality if you factor everything into each transfer I probably make a little over minimum wage doing them. Thirty percent comes right off the top for taxes; then I have insurance, security service, fees and licenses, supplies, wait time, paperwork, etc. and that $20 in now down to around eight bucks.

I do provide a service for my customers as they don’t have to drive twenty to fifty miles to have a transfer done. The majority of my customers are within a ten mile radius of my place of business; many live within a couple miles. I do not compete with the store front businesses as I am limited to the volume of business I am willing to take on and the limitation of product I can get from my suppliers due to not being a store front gun shop. I do this for the love of guns, keeping busy in my retirement and meeting some nice people and making some spend money in the process, period. Anyone thinking you can get rich doing what I do is more than welcome to go out and get their licenses and set up their own business. The next time I need to wait home all afternoon for a gun to show up I will call that person and gladly pay them half my net transfer fee to sit in for me.

I am being completely honest when I say I get 90% of my transfer business from GunBroker.com. Every person who comes in for their transfer gets a sales pitch from me to join INGO if they are not already members. With many clients unfamiliar with INGO I take the time to show them the site on my computer. Many have never heard of this web site and I’ve probably gotten INGO over fifty new members. Doing so cuts my own throat as now these people can go on the classified forum to buy firearms and do not need a FFL. Many of these people who have become INGO members have also become business or personal friends and INGO is a good way to keep in touch. I was an INGO supporting member well BEFORE I got my FFL and will continue to support this site as much as possible.

If you want people like Karl and I to pay our “fair share” all you have to do as far as I am concerned is stop the few people on here who are doing volume sales on INGO without having a legal business or being a advertiser like you want me to be. If I decide to pay $360 a year I am sure I can start selling more guns and pay the additional cost but I cannot pay for it through the few transfers I get from INGO. I can’t sell new firearms or firearm parts if I have to compete with people with zero overhead and getting a pass from you. Like you say let’s be fair. Contrary to what your friend in Ft Wayne implied in an earlier post I am not an idiot nor do I suck at business; quite the contrary I have had a very successful career managing much larger businesses than his and can calculate for myself if advertising on INGO is a good business decision for me.

What I have observed since joining INGO in May of last year is how much Karl has done for the membership and he has a right to be frustrated right now. I am disappointed how little support I see for Karl coming from the rank and file members on here. Some people have short memories. When they have to pay more than they pay now or drive all the way to Ft Wayne to do a transfer perhaps they will understand what they have lost.

Dick

Originally Posted by Fenway

Thank you very much Michiana for gracing our pages and allowing us to transfer guns through you for $20. Since INGO is such a small part of your business I'm surprised you are so upset that you can no longer post whatever you want for sale on here.

If you don't think $1 a day or about 1 tansfer and 1/2 per month is worth it to you to reach thousands of Hoosier Gun Owners I'm sorry about that. Our advertising rates are incredibly reasonable given the amount of traffic this site receives. If you think I'm "all about the money" like another FFL on here for asking people who use this site to make money to up think again. I have spent hundreds of hours turning INGO into what it is and for a long time I lost money running this site and giving us all a place to hang out. INGO has grown to be so big I need to run it like a business to keep it going just like you run your FFL. You have made it clear $1 / day is not worth it to you. Fine, please move on.

Best of luck to you on GunBroker!

Fenway

[Fenway]

It's $1 / day to advertise on this site Dick. Thanks for understanding this site has got so big I now can no longer have a free for all in terms of advertising. It is not fair to those who are paying money to advertise and I rely on their support.

Thanks!