Waterboarding

[turnandshoot4]

Should it be legal? Dick Cheney says it should.

Guantanamo should stay open, waterboarding OK: Cheney

Cheney was asked when the detention camp at the US naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba can be "responsibly" be shut down. "Well, I think that that would come with the end of the war on terror," he told ABC.
And when is that? "Well, nobody knows," Cheney said. "Nobody can specify that."
In previous wars the United States has "always exercised the right to capture the enemy and then hold them till the end of the conflict. That's what we did in World War II with, you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands of German prisoners," Cheney said.
"The same basic principle ought to apply here in terms of our right to capture the enemy and hold them.
The other option, Cheney said, "is to turn them over to somebody else. A lot of them, nobody wants. I mean, there's a great resistance sometimes in the home countries to taking these people back into their own territory."
According to Cheney, some 30 detainees who were released from Guantanamo "ended up back on the battlefield again, and we've encountered them a second time around. But they've either been killed or captured in further conflicts with our forces."
Cheney also said he helped authorize interrogation methods used on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, an Al-Qaeda operative detained in Pakistan and sent to Guantanamo who has confessed to being a top planner of the September 11, 2001 terror attacks in the United States.
Sheikh Mohammed was subjected to a forced interrogation method that simulates drowning known as waterboarding.
"I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the agency in effect came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do," Cheney said.
"And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it," Cheney said.
ABC asked him if in hindsight he thought the tactics went too far. "I don't," Cheney said.
The Cheney interview is to air on ABC late Monday and early Tuesday, the network said, as it released an advanced transcript of the questions and answers

[Bigum1969]

As much as my gut reaction is to do whatever it takes to get information from terrorists, sanctioning torture makes us no better than them.

There are many times I'm enraged at things I see and hear on the news, but deep down inside, after reflection, our civility is one of our greatest strengths. In fact, it is a defining characteristic of the United States of America.

[turnandshoot4]

Anyone else care to share?

[Vigilant]

Waterboarding works! Keep on keepin' on!

[techres]

Power begets use. Use begets misuse. While one reason to avoid torture is to protect the very soul of our nation, the other reason is that if the government gets to waterboard these guys, then they will get to waterboard me.

I don't want that power or permission in the hands of my government, period.

[turnandshoot4]

Why Vigilant?

[ATF Consumer]

As long as there is no physical damage...no blood, no foul!

[turnandshoot4]

Psychological damage can be far worse than anything physical damage could ever do.

[turnandshoot4]

For example, you can have a bloody nose for 20 minutes, broken bones for weeks, scars for life. These will not haunt you however. Many of our soldiers coming back have PTSD. This can be just as debilitating as losing a leg or arm. PTSD can lead to major depressive disorders, bipolar disorders, and many other anxiety related disorders.

PTSD can be brought on by any major stress related event. Including waterboarding.

[techres]

Originally Posted by ATF Consumer

As long as there is no physical damage...no blood, no foul!

I don't want to trust that the Acorn representative holding me upside down and just "kinda drowning" me has got enough of a medical degree to not make an accident.

I don't want the BATF agent to think that he can help me "remember" how the auto sear ended up in my posession as well as how my dog "really" died.

I don't want the same government who though imprisoning an American citizen without trial for over 3 years and holding him in solitary should now enjoy my confidence in knowing the find line between pretend killing and killing.

I don't want my kids growing up in a USA where hooded agents of the government get to forcibly restrain citizens and do things to them that cause them to scream and beg for their lives until they give up information that the state wants.

There could be no simpler definition than that of a tyrrany. Plain and simple.

And do not give me any lines about how the gov't would only do it to some people and not others. Once it is ok to do it to a foreigner, then it is kinda easy to do it to an American (even if a redefined one). Once it can be done to an American, what makes you think it can't happen to you?

Bury your rifles? Won't do you any good if you're just gonna scream out the location when the community organizers have you in their windowless rooms...