WE INVESTED IN GM AND CHRYSLER

[SirRealism]

Originally Posted by melduagun

WE CAN ALL THANK OUR LUCKY STARS THAT IN THE WORLD WARS WE FOUGHT (2) OUR COUNTRY STOOD TOGETHER OF ONE MIND AND ONE PURPOSE "TO PRESERVE OUR COUNTRY" AND OUR WAY OF LIFE. THE MOST PROSPEROUS,STRONGEST, COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT NO ONE COULD STAND AGAINST NO ONE COULD DESTROY IS BEING DESTROYED FROM WITHIN. THIS WAS FORETOLD IN THE EARLY 1960S BY "NIKITA KRUSCHEV".YOU SPEAK OF PROTECTIONISM LIKE IT WAS A DIRTY WORD, IF WE DONT PROTECT OUR OWN THEN WE DESERVE TO LOSE OUR OWN. AND WE WILL!

...and the demise of GM was foretold by a 20yr old (me) 20 yrs ago. They refused to make the common sense business decisions that would have kept them afloat. If anything, GM has made our country weaker.

This has all been covered in other similarly futile threads. Coercing folks into buying a product with enticements other than quality and value is ridiculous.

[6birds]

Originally Posted by melduagun

WE "BEING" THE US TAX PAYERS. IN ORDER TO RE-COUP OUR TAX DOLLARS AS I SEE IT WE SHOULD BE BUYING THESE SAME PRODUCTS "RIGHT". SO WHY? DURING THE "CASH FOR CLUNKERS" USING EVEN MORE OF "OUR'" TAX DOLLARS DID THE AMERICAN TAX PAYERS BUY 41 PERCENT OF FOREIGN CARS, HUH?

They bought the foreign cars because they didn't really give a s^!# what "AS I SEE IT WE SHOULD BE BUYING " .

They earned the money, and hence get to spend it as they see fit. Capitalism- look it up.

I find this quite humourous that "spending" like you would want them to, they now get those dollars taxed as income. So how is that a "re-coup"?

If you want to get a little help and want to figure our how best to "re-coup", borrow some money for a few Economics classes.

Have a great day!

[quicksdraw]

All of you post like you believe that the "Cash for Clunkers" program was actually intended to stimulate the economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. 3 billion dollars isn't diddly to the economy. G.M alone lost over 3 times that amount (9.6 billion) in just the 4th quarter of 2008. The program was nothing more than a smoke and mirrors move by the government to show the American people that our leaders were "doing something" to stimulate the economy. It's the old "game of perception" the dems have been playing for years.
Had Obama and co. really wanted to do something to stimulate the economy, they would have cut taxes, across the board, rather than institute corporate handouts.

[kludge]

Originally Posted by quicksdraw

All of you post like you believe that the "Cash for Clunkers" program was actually intended to stimulate the economy. Nothing could be further from the truth. 3 billion dollars isn't diddly to the economy.

It's not the 3 billion dollars.

YouTube - Money As Debt (2 of 5)

Start at 3:35 on 2 of 5 if you don't want to watch the whole hours worth.

It's the loans that banks are able to originate because someone went out and bought a new car and financed the balance after they deducted $4500 from the sale price.

So they finance $25,000 of a $29,500 car.

When you multiply that $25000 times $3B/$4500 and repeat the process it's a WHOLE LOT OF NEW MONEY that is created out of thin air.

The banks then charge interest on their newly found fake money. And you wonder why the rich get richer.

Now consider how much new money will be put into circulation for the $3 Trillion of the "stimulus" package.

[6birds]

mrjarrell-Nope. I'll buy what I want and select the best item for the best price, regardless of its origin. Absolutely, I buy it when I need it, or sometimes when I want it, not when it suites someones socialist agenda. Well said!


kludge-So they finance $25,000 of a $29,500 car.
The banks then charge interest on their newly found fake money. And you wonder why the rich get richer. Well said!
I buy it when I have the cash for it, and with auto's starting out too high, and depreciate as fast as they do, you'll never see me take out a loan on a car.

They are taking out a $25000 loan on a $19500 car, and when they get pinched on taxes and insurance, pay bills with a credit card.

kludge- And you wonder why the rich get richer.
Nope, that why I'm on the right side of the lend-or-spend equation, I'm making money off of this too.

[kludge]

:grabs soap box:

The economy runs on debt. All of the "money" incirculation represents debt. When thing get tight, people hoard cash and stop using credit. When the laws let people do stupid things with credit for too long thing must naturally equalize. When that happens cash is king, banks stop lending, and people stop using credit.

When that happens there is not enough "growth" in debt (money supply) to keep everyone from defaulting and banks start foreclosing.

Then people get scared more and stop buying on credit and we get a downward spiral.

To stimulate debt spending (and prop up the economy that runs on it) the governement takes on more debt and encourages other to do the same. It's the only way to perpetuate the illusion.

[Boilers]

Originally Posted by kludge

:grabs soap box:

The economy runs on debt. All of the "money" incirculation represents debt. When thing get tight, people hoard cash and stop using credit. When the laws let people do stupid things with credit for too long thing must naturally equalize. When that happens cash is king, banks stop lending, and people stop using credit.

When that happens there is not enough "growth" in debt (money supply) to keep everyone from defaulting and banks start foreclosing.

Then people get scared more and stop buying on credit and we get a downward spiral.

To stimulate debt spending (and prop up the economy that runs on it) the governement takes on more debt and encourages other to do the same. It's the only way to perpetuate the illusion.

Nothing further needs be said.

[Aszerigan]

Here's a little thought that helps me sleep better at night. I think of the federal government's coffers as a big chest filled with gold coins. When I pay my taxes at the end of the year, my coins go in the pile with everyone else's. Then, when a pothole on my street needs to be filled, I envision a little gold coin coming out and plugging "my" pothole. Its everyone ELSE's money that gets spent on the crap.

Thanks, guys.

(BTW - I know this isn't how it works, but getting mad at the government for being inefficient is as productive as trying to slide an oyster into a parking meter.)

[Boilers]

I am watching Autoline right now. They are very good inside(r) discussions. This is worth a listen. I read, listen, subscribe to what amounts to hours of auto industry news a day....

Autoline After Hours #22, Autoline AutolineDetroit on USTREAM. Other News

They are talking GM/Opel Germany deal/options.

Every Thursday night at 7 pm it's live.

At 25minutes a representative from Edmunds refutes/questions the government's reporting of Toyota Corolla sales. She says she thinks the reports are faulty.

For instance, she just mentions the government report has a Ford Focus "all wheel drive" on it. Uh... there is NO AWD Focus!!! So, how can ANY of the report be trusted?
Plus, Ford Escape is broken out into two models 2WD and 4WD. But the foreign cars are NOT broken out, so they look to sell more.

[mrjarrell]

Coming to this late, but here's my take. I did not invest in anything. The government stole from my family and used the proceeds to aid their supporters via wealth redistribution. Nothing was voluntary. They used, and continue to use the threat of force to redistribute my families wealth as they see fit.

As for the monies they used, Paco is right. Those funds go all over the world, much of them returning to Americans in the form of stocks and dividends paid out. Retirees benefit from companies like Toyota. Line workers at American plants benefit, as do their families. The "Buy American" mantra is just more populist, nationalistic tripe. Much of it sponsored by socialist unions. Nope. I'll buy what I want and select the best item for the best price, regardless of its origin.