Letter to GOP

[karlsgunbunker]

www.LetterToGOP.com

[melensdad]

Much as I agree with the tone/sentiment of part of that letter the "fact" is that letter is not "factual" despite its claims. Further it states opinions and claims them to be "fact." It makes claims without proof and then declares them to be "fact."

Those of us who like Ron Paul, but who would not vote for McCain in the general election are fools who are actually supporting Obama by drawing support away from the only viable alternative to Obama. While McCain is clearly not my choice, he will have my vote because voting for a 3rd party choice, while 'principled' is also a guaranteed loss for gun owners.

Perpetuating misinformation like that so-called 'factual' list contained in that letter is likely to put Obama in office. Much of that letter can be easily de-bunked by reading the Rasmussen tracking data or other historically accurate professional 'pundits' who have proven their accuracy over time.

[karlsgunbunker]

I'm already aware of your opinion of voting for Ron Paul.
I don't Agree with it, but I'm aware of it from your other posts.

I for one Refuse to "Hold My Nose and Pull the Lever".
I'm tired of being told by people like you that I'm Wasting my Vote.

I will vote for someone who represents MY views.
Ron Paul is the only Candidate that is even close.
The other Candidates are Socialist Gun Grabbers and Illegal Imigrant Apologist's.

I'm voting for Ron Paul because he believes in the Constitution.
I'm voting for what I believe is Right and I refuse to compromise, Again.
I don't give a rats a$$ what the Pundits or Rasmussen say.
Opinions are like Armpits, Everyone has them and they all stink.

Right or Wrong, Win or Lose.
I'm voting for Ron Paul because it's the Right thing to do. IMO (which also stinks)

[melensdad]

Karl, I have no problem with your opinion. I only pointed out that the letter is not factual and contains many errors, and claims of fact that are not fact.

I personally love Ron Paul's positions, we can agree to disagree on voting for him, but that will not make the letter any closer to accurate. The letter is still wrong on many counts.

The "Letter" states the following:

Point #1 in the letter claims In a head to head race with Senator John McCain and no third party contenders, Senator Barack Obama would easily win the Presidency. Some pundits are saying "in a landslide."

Rasmussen tracking data shows that RIGHT NOW that McCain would get electoral college 240 votes while Obama would get 260. That is not a landslide, nor is it even a sure victory for Obama, who just got a boost in the polls by finally winning his party.

Point #2 in the letter claims Former GOP Representative Bob Barr has entered the race on the Libertarian ticket which will siphon votes away from Senator John McCain and the GOP. (The Nader effect) Traditionally, the Libertarian candidate gets 1% of the vote, however pundits are estimating that former GOP Representative Bob Barr will garner 5-8% or more.

While it is true that Barr entered the race, and while true that it will siphon some votes from McCain, most polls suggest he will get no more than 3% of the vote (BTW Nader got 5%)

Point #3 in the letter claims Senator John McCain is a pro-war candidate. National polls show that 70% of American voters are against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Therefore, a large number of the voting public will vote against Senator John McCain based on this fact.

Again it is true that McCain favors winning the war, and again it is true that roughly 70% of the populous wants a speedy end, the conclusion is not factual. In fact when ranked by voter importance, many of the voters who want to get out of Iraq place it well down the importance list in what will determine who they vote for. Further, on issues of National Security, McCain ranks #1 with voters which further mutes the falsehood of the above 'fact.'

I could go on. As I stated, there are simply many wild claims that are outright wrong, not factual, and obviously not accurate in that letter. It will not be taken seriously by any party, but I'm sure Obama's camp would love to see its so-called "facts" become widely accepted.

[karlsgunbunker]

Melensdad,
I never made any assertion that any of the "Facts" in the letter were true or false.
I consider anything coming from a Pollster to be slanted and mostly BS.
I grew up in cattle country and I'm very familiar with BS in it's purest form.
I simply posted a link.
I think it's long past time for the GOP to wake up and if this letter helps that's great.

My problem is with people loudly exhorting that I should vote for McCain as the lesser of two evils.
The lesser of two evils is still Evil.

I cast my first vote for president in 1980 for Reagan and again in 1984 voted for Reagan.
That is the last presidential vote I'm truly happy with.
Bush I was a compromise, lesser of two evils.
Same with Dole, lesser of two evils.
Bush II same deal x 2.

I've had it with compromise and voting for an unqualified candidate.
I think and hope there are a lot more people who are fed-up.
The only thing that Odumba is right about is that it's time for a change.

I see a lot of gun owners pushing for a grass roots Ron Paul Revolution (for lack of a better word).
I also see a few naysayers like you saying we should compromise and vote for McCain or our vote is useless or worse helping Odumba.

There are enough concerned Gun Owners in this country to make a third party vote viable.

[Bill of Rights]

Originally Posted by karlsgunbunker

There are enough concerned Gun Owners in this country to make a third party vote viable.

True. The trick is 1) You have to get them to believe it, and 2) you have to get a candidate like Dr. Paul they can stand behind.

I want Dr. Paul to win. I ran for State Delegate in this last election in an attempt to go to the convention to cast exactly that vote. Sadly, Dr. Paul is not likely to win the GOP nomination, so that leaves the question that if you will not hold your nose and pull McCain's lever, and Dr. Paul does not run 3rd party, for whom will you vote? You don't need to answer that, I'm asking it rhetorically.

I don't know how true it is, but I once read that 40% of the public will vote party-line Democrat, 40% will vote party-line GOP, and the remaining 20% are who the candidates try to woo, knowing the other 80% are already "sewn up".

Given no better option, I'll vote against Obama with who I think actually stands a chance of beating him, because even if the vote is 48% Obama, 47% McCain, 3% Barr, and only 2% Paul, we still get Obama, where that 2% might have actually made the difference and kept a socialist/communist out of office. Dr. Paul will not be President this time around, and that means that not only does he lose, so does the rest of America.

Blessings,
B

[BloodEclipse]

Originally Posted by Bill of Rights

Given no better option, I'll vote against Obama with who I think actually stands a chance of beating him, because even if the vote is 48% Obama, 47% McCain, 3% Barr, and only 2% Paul, we still get Obama, where that 2% might have actually made the difference and kept a socialist/communist out of office.

First let me say I am disgusted with my Republican Party. With President Bush I have many disagreements. ie. Immigration, Education, trying to reach acroos the isle to liberals etc.... Spending is out of control and government is larger then it needs to be and is becoming a large burden on the Actual Working People. You know those of us not getting a government handout and no I don't want a handout I want to keep more of what I work hard for.If you vote for anyone other than McCain the raw truth is you are voting to have the government grow even faster and see your rights diminish. Like it or not a vote for anyone other than McCain = a vote for Obama.Do I think McCain will reverse things from where they are now? Not likely but I see him as doing far less Damage than Obama. If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.

[bwframe]

Originally Posted by BloodEclipse

If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.

Exactly!

[4sarge]

Originally Posted by BloodEclipse

First let me say I am disgusted with my Republican Party. With President Bush I have many disagreements. ie. Immigration, Education, trying to reach across the isle to liberals etc.... Spending is out of control and government is larger then it needs to be and is becoming a large burden on the Actual Working People. You know those of us not getting a government handout and no I don't want a handout I want to keep more of what I work hard for.If you vote for anyone other than McCain the raw truth is you are voting to have the government grow even faster and see your rights diminish. Like it or not a vote for anyone other than McCain = a vote for Obama.Do I think McCain will reverse things from where they are now? Not likely but I see him as doing far less Damage than Obama. If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.

A Vote for anyone but McCain is a Vote for OBama. I'm not thrilled with McCain but he's got to be better than Barry OBama

[melensdad]

Originally Posted by karlsgunbunker

Melensdad,
I never made any assertion that any of the "Facts" in the letter were true or false.

Karl, I'm sorry if you think I suggested you made that assertion, I did not. What I attempted to say is that the letter is full of lies and mis-statements but I did not try to attribute those to you.

I then went on to illustrate some of the problems by simply providing some information regarding the first three points in the letter.

Originally Posted by karlsgunbunker

There are enough concerned Gun Owners in this country to make a third party vote viable.

Well I hope that is true at some point in the future, but I doubt if that is true today. I certainly have not seen any evidence that your statement is true. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that, of the total population of gun owners, that there is a huge amount of apathy in most of them. There is also a small, but growing group of gun owners, that is becoming more vocal and more organized.

One thing we all must realize is that we who are members of the NRA, GOA, CCRKBA or other organizations, and we who post pro-gun messages on the internet are probably far more active in gun rights than the 'typical' gun owner who has 1 gun, rarely if ever practices with it, and is often in favor of 'reasonable' gun controls.

I've had many arguments with gun owners who would have no problem banning 'semi-autos' or 'assault weapons.'

I think many people dramatically over estimate the number of gun owners who will actively support gun rights. I'm not saying that we are a small group, the NRA has plenty of proof to show that politicians can be beaten, or can win, with the support of gun owners. But what I am saying is that gun owners are not the unified group that some think we are, nor are we big enough to become our own party.

JMO

Originally Posted by 4sarge

A Vote for anyone but McCain is a Vote for OBama. I'm not thrilled with McCain but he's got to be better than Barry OBama

Originally Posted by BloodEclipse

If you think you will feel better by voting for Paul, remember this thread and I'll ask you again in 2 years if Obama becomes our next President.