3-gun build questions

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  • daddydavex2

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 31, 2014
    1
    1
    loudon
    Im building my first 3-gun specific rifle. As I understand, the bcg and barrel are most likely the most important. Ideas on what barrel and bcg?
    Any help will be greatly appreciated.
     

    whippo

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    May 17, 2013
    318
    18
    Indianapolis
    I went with a rca bcg can't be happier... I think optics play a bigger part than the barrel and bcg as long as you have a reliable and accurate rifle... I didn't realize this till after I built the rifle.
     

    Mike Elzinga

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    11   0   0
    Mar 22, 2008
    784
    28
    NWI
    When I got my 3 gun rifle, I had never shot an AR much and just knew I needed one for 3 gun. As a result I paid attention where it wasn't needed. From my still limited experience, it makes almost no difference between a rifle length and carbine length gas system. Everyone told me how rough a short gas system was and now I don't think that matters at all. Also, it's super nice to have a super accurate rifle, but here in IN there are very few clubs where you will get a rifle shot past 100 yards. However, you will have a ton of shots under 20 yards. To do it again I would get the shortest and lightest rifle possible. As for optics, don't waste big money on a high end 1-4 scope unless you plan on shooting big matches and travelling. I ran an Eotech for a couple years and still think for local Indiana matches that it's a great choice. Again for local matches, any rack grade base rifle that runs well will do. If you are going to spend money on something, put it in the trigger. Just my opinion on how I would do mine different.
     

    midget

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    6   0   0
    Apr 2, 2010
    1,619
    38
    Leo
    Buy an inexpensive rifle, a decent optic, a decent trigger, and spend the rest of the money on ammo.
    realistically, all you need is a rifle that is quick to transition and can hold 3 moa. The rest is gravy.
     

    tohm

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Dec 26, 2012
    78
    6
    Lowell
    Buy a JP there is a reason they are the benchmark. they have tuned their package to work and work reliably. Spend time shooting.
     

    dj-vektor

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    22   0   0
    Apr 28, 2013
    91
    8
    Morgantown
    If building one is what you're after you'll need more than barrel and BCG. JPs light weight BCG (LMOS) will do you no good if you don't have an adjustable gas block. You'll also need to lighten your buffer and tune your buffer. I didn't have to switch to a stiffer buffer spring but you can play with it and find one you like.

    JP does sell complete uppers but they are pretty salty. I'd get a decent barrel, cheap adj gas block, LMOS and work on my buffer. This will help recoil for faster follow-up shots.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    As for optics, don't waste big money on a high end 1-4 scope unless you plan on shooting big matches and travelling. I ran an Eotech for a couple years and still think for local Indiana matches that it's a great choice.

    there are several 1-4s that are less expensive than most eotech models, eg vortex or burris...

    -rvb
     

    FishnHunt

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Oct 18, 2013
    861
    18
    Churubusco
    As for optics, don't waste big money on a high end 1-4 scope unless you plan on shooting big matches and travelling.
    FWIW (new guy opinion here) I run a Vortex 1-4x Viper and did not feel handicapped at all at the ACC match, where all the rifle targets are 15-30ish yards. $480-$500 depending on where you look, for some really nice glass.
     

    Jesse Tischauser

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 31, 2011
    167
    18
    Oklahoma
    When I got my 3 gun rifle, I had never shot an AR much and just knew I needed one for 3 gun. As a result I paid attention where it wasn't needed. From my still limited experience, it makes almost no difference between a rifle length and carbine length gas system. Everyone told me how rough a short gas system was and now I don't think that matters at all. Also, it's super nice to have a super accurate rifle, but here in IN there are very few clubs where you will get a rifle shot past 100 yards. However, you will have a ton of shots under 20 yards. To do it again I would get the shortest and lightest rifle possible. As for optics, don't waste big money on a high end 1-4 scope unless you plan on shooting big matches and travelling. I ran an Eotech for a couple years and still think for local Indiana matches that it's a great choice. Again for local matches, any rack grade base rifle that runs well will do. If you are going to spend money on something, put it in the trigger. Just my opinion on how I would do mine different.

    This is solid advice. You can shoot a $600 AR in 3-gun and have a ton of fun. If you plan to get serious about the sport you can upgrade at that time. Or start with something like the Stag Arms 3G that will take you a long way.

    Here is my list of 3-Gun rifle needs.

    1. Trigger
    2. Compensator
    3. Match Grade Barrel
    4. Optic
    5. Low mass Bolt Carrier & Low Mass Buffer
    6. Adjustable Gas
    7. Everything else
     

    Jesse Tischauser

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 31, 2011
    167
    18
    Oklahoma
    Jesse, what compensators do you like and why?

    I had been using the SJC Titan but I gave up on the loud concussion and the carbon it throws backward destroyed a light I had mounted. So I switched to the Seekins Precision ATC. It uses a jam nut rather than a peel or crush washer which is awesome in itself.

    My 3GN shooter profile lists most everything I use.

    http://3gunnation.com/shooter_profile?id=138
     
    Last edited:

    Whitey1

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 2, 2013
    55
    6
    Cool. Saw you on the TV tonight btw, commercial for STAG during Shooting USA. Kind of a handsome feller, or was that the other guy shooting for STAG? :)
     

    rabbitdave

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Dec 12, 2008
    199
    18
    Zionsville, IN
    Budget build AR for 2 gun. Surplus Ammo Upper, lower. Blackhole 18" barrel, BCM BCG. Decent forend. Vortex red dot/scope. Hyperfire 24c. Mission First Tactical minimalist stock. Ergo grip. Miculeck comp. Should come in under $1500 and cover everything you could shoot in 3gun. Key is a reliable shooter. For Indiana 1 MOA accuracy for the meatballs at ACC and 400 yrd shots at Hillside. Just my 2 cents.
     

    jonny4523

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    26   0   0
    May 26, 2009
    805
    34
    Lafayette
    I add a few things:

    1. Don't go cheap on the BCG. I've had matches where guys have broke extractors. One in particular was on the 1st or 2nd stage of the day. Him and I ended up swapping BCGS back and forth the rest of the day. I use BCM BCGs in all my rifles.

    2. Quality optic. I don't mean it has to be Nightforce optics, but don't use something you picked up from the 1500 for $20 either. I use an Aimpoint ML3 that I picked up used. Bushnell has come out with a 1-4 that is a first focal plane scope. You can get it WITH the mount for under $300. I don't know how many people have tested it and how well it's holding up. But that seems like a steal for FFP glass.

    3. Quality optic mount. If you buy a nice Vortex scope and throw it on an NC Star mount that you picked up at the 1500 for $10, you're throwing your money away on the scope. It'd be frustrating to be on target on a 50 yard target one stage, throw it in a barrel, and then on the next stage have your zero way off when you shoot at the 300 yard flash target.

    4. Proper installation: make sure all of the small things, regardless of brand, are done correctly to the rifle...like staking. Gas key properly staked, receiver extension castle nut staked. I've seen the castle nut come loose before. Not pretty when your buffer retaining pin pops out. If the gas key loosens up, you'll have all kinds of cycling issues.

    5. A good trigger. You'll need to try a single stage and a two stage trigger to see which one strikes your fancy. I'm a big fan of Geissle triggers (I use SD-3G & SSA-E), but they are very expensive. If you're on a budget, I'd recommend the Rock River NM 2 stage or the ALT ACT single.

    6. Barrel. True, Indiana ranges (except Wildcat and Hillside) don't offer a lot of distance, so you may not need a JP or Noveske barrel. But don't just buy a $100 barrel of e-bay either. I've seen someone do that also and they threw it away after the first range outing. Personally, for a 16", I'd recommend the BCM BFH 16" midlength. If you're going 18", for the money, I doubt you can beat a Wilson Combat match grade barrel for $275.
     

    sipherblitz

    Plinker
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Oct 31, 2013
    51
    6
    Greenwood
    buy a decent rifle. then upgrade. trigger and optic are the important parts and where you will see you're biggest gains. then buy lots and lots of bullets
     

    yournamehere

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 23, 2013
    148
    18
    I add a few things:

    1. Don't go cheap on the BCG. I've had matches where guys have broke extractors. One in particular was on the 1st or 2nd stage of the day. Him and I ended up swapping BCGS back and forth the rest of the day. I use BCM BCGs in all my rifles.

    2. Quality optic. I don't mean it has to be Nightforce optics, but don't use something you picked up from the 1500 for $20 either. I use an Aimpoint ML3 that I picked up used. Bushnell has come out with a 1-4 that is a first focal plane scope. You can get it WITH the mount for under $300. I don't know how many people have tested it and how well it's holding up. But that seems like a steal for FFP glass.

    3. Quality optic mount. If you buy a nice Vortex scope and throw it on an NC Star mount that you picked up at the 1500 for $10, you're throwing your money away on the scope. It'd be frustrating to be on target on a 50 yard target one stage, throw it in a barrel, and then on the next stage have your zero way off when you shoot at the 300 yard flash target.

    4. Proper installation: make sure all of the small things, regardless of brand, are done correctly to the rifle...like staking. Gas key properly staked, receiver extension castle nut staked. I've seen the castle nut come loose before. Not pretty when your buffer retaining pin pops out. If the gas key loosens up, you'll have all kinds of cycling issues.

    5. A good trigger. You'll need to try a single stage and a two stage trigger to see which one strikes your fancy. I'm a big fan of Geissle triggers (I use SD-3G & SSA-E), but they are very expensive. If you're on a budget, I'd recommend the Rock River NM 2 stage or the ALT ACT single.

    6. Barrel. True, Indiana ranges (except Wildcat and Hillside) don't offer a lot of distance, so you may not need a JP or Noveske barrel. But don't just buy a $100 barrel of e-bay either. I've seen someone do that also and they threw it away after the first range outing. Personally, for a 16", I'd recommend the BCM BFH 16" midlength. If you're going 18", for the money, I doubt you can beat a Wilson Combat match grade barrel for $275.

    Your list of number 1,4,5,6 can all be covered by buying a decent out of the box rifle vs building one. For about the same money.
     

    yournamehere

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 23, 2013
    148
    18
    Budget build AR for 2 gun. Surplus Ammo Upper, lower. Blackhole 18" barrel, BCM BCG. Decent forend. Vortex red dot/scope. Hyperfire 24c. Mission First Tactical minimalist stock. Ergo grip. Miculeck comp. Should come in under $1500 and cover everything you could shoot in 3gun. Key is a reliable shooter. For Indiana 1 MOA accuracy for the meatballs at ACC and 400 yrd shots at Hillside. Just my 2 cents.

    I don't recall having shot at a match at Hillside at 400(yet) because it didn't happen last year if I recall because Jon said the range would not let him, this year who knows. If you guys want to build a rifle and do it well fine. I know a few that have but to do it to save $50 is pointless if you spend $$ on shipping parts and have to buy the tools you don't have. For a guy who is just wanting to get a decent 3G rifle telling someone to buy and hassle with putting one together just to get a very specific brand of flux capacitor on your rifle that wont benefit you beyond the pre match penis comparisons so to speak. Buy a quality rifle if your not sure like a JP or one of several good ones. DMPS, Remi etc. You can find hot deals on used ones guys have bought and decided they don't want to dedicate the time to the sport needed and move on. IF you have a solid platform and want to upgrade a stock, grip, trigger or barrel that's different. I don't even consider a optic as part of the rifle in that sense as its a different component to add on.
     
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