5" PPQ M2 VS 5" M&P Pro for IDPA & USPSA

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  • ART338WM

    Sharpshooter
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    Jun 2, 2013
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    As I stated in my first post, I would like to give IDPA a try I'm a on rather tight budget, and after a mountain of research, I have narrowed my selection down to the fallowing two pistols:
    <>5" M&P Pro 9mm
    <>5" PPQ M2 9mm

    I have tried dried fired both enough to draw these conclusions. In terms of how each fit and feel in my hands they are dead even. On a schale of 1-10 the PPQ's trigger is a 10 and the M&P is a nine, so who know's if after a good break in if the M&P's trigger wont work in to equal the PPQ M2. As far as fit and finish go I'd say again they are even. Sight picture the M&P was a 10 the PPQ M2 was a 9. But the M&P has certain advantages that must be considered. It has a larger capacity. Magazines are plentiful, available and considerably cheaper than the PPQ M2. The M&P comes with a double mag pouch, the PPQ M2 doesn't that's likely a additional $50 in savings (keep in mind I'm on a budget) VS the PPQ M2 . The M&P at Bud's is $100 cheaper. That $100 will get me about at least 1/2 the way of paying for a belt, holster and a extra mag, possibly two. Although this has no actual bearing on how each gun will perform, I prefer the look of the PPQ M2, but looks a better shooter does not make. I've watched at least half a dozen youtube videos of each gun shooting and based on those videos thay were again even in terms of accuracy at 25 yards and under. One last thing I noticed about the M&P I found fault with was it's fiber optic front sight. Where as it gave a excellent sight picture, it is definetly far more likely to come loose or brake. I say this because the sample I handled front sights fiber was actually so loose I could have removed it, leading me to firmly believe it will at some point fall out and leave me with a less than functional front sight. I find this near unacceptable on a near $600 gun, espcially considering the importance of a front sight to any HG. I would have no such problems with the PPQ M2's front sight. So the $100 advantage the M&P offers is likely nullified as I can see me likely having to buy a after market front sight for the M&P.

    So considering that except for a slightly better trigger on the PPQ M2, with all other important things being equal with both guns, If any reading this were I which would you buy? and please tell me why. And no I can't afford both.

    Thanks,
    Arthur.
     
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    sporter

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    Glock 34

    All jokes aside. I see a lot of decent shooters running the XDM. Several also running the M&P. I have the seen the standard PPQ in production class.
     
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    geronimojoe85

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    All things equal I chose the 5 inch M&P but that was before the PPQ came out.
    That being said, I'd still go with the M&P for the fact that aftermarket stuff is available. Magazines are cheaper and at least in my area more available.
     

    ART338WM

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    I should have repeated I don't like Glocks, and I much prefer the trigger, and feel of the Pro, and the PPQ M2 to XD's XDM's, Glocks, Sigs, FN&H's as well as every other DOA type handgun I tried. That is why is why I have narrowed down to the two I listed. They above all others I tried felt best in my hands and met all my other criteria in a gun in the $600 or less price range (hopefully less) for use in IDPA and USPSA. I am quite possibly asking for help and or advice that just isn't out there.
     
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    Grelber

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    I carry replacement fiber for the front sight in my range bag. Haven't looked at the m&p but if it is like many then the fiber is easy to swap out & cheap (& certian to break again).

    Hmmm, your first IDPA match might cost you something like: $20 gas + $20 entry fee + $30 ammo. Point being is it is not an inexpensive hobby. I'd be tempted to buy the gun I wanted most even if it meant waiting to stock up another 100 or 300, and I'd be looking in classifieds here and on places like the Brian Enos forum to maybe find a sweet deal on a used gun or complete set up. Nice thing about buying used is maybe you will not get hurt if you want to switch guns down the road.
     

    wtburnette

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    Like in your other thread, I'll stick with recommending the PPQ. If I were you, I'd look around and see if you could find a range that rents both guns to see which you shoot better and/or like shooting better. It's absolutely true that the M&P will have a wider variety of aftermarket parts, but the PPQ has enough to work just fine. I have everything I need to use mine for IDPA if I decide to switch over. The only thing a bit constrained is sights. I happen to like the Trijicon HD's and while they are available, they're quite expensive and on backorder everywhere. It's also a more expensive gun, but IMO it's well worth it. I had a M&P VTAC, which I really liked, but didn't shoot nearly as well as I do the PPQ, so I ended up selling it. You don't have your location listed, but if you're near the southside of Indy I'd be happy to meet you at Beech Grove Firing Range sometime and let you shoot my PPQ.
     

    Rob377

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    Neither.

    The PPQ could be great, but that magwell is terrible.

    With the M&P, you've got a 50/50 shot of getting one that'll hold a group at 25 yds.


    For non-Glock plastic gun for USPSA production division, The FNS 5" is probably the best bet. (video of one in action > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnSfoFQSAws )

    And FWIW, in 3 years of USPSA and something like 50,000+rds of shooting, I've had my fiber pop out once, maybe twice. And the front sight was still usable, just didn't have a bright red/dot on it anymore. Finished the stage, and went to the safe area and put a new fiber in less than 30 seconds.
     

    Grelber

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    With the M&P, you've got a 50/50 shot of getting one that'll hold a group at 25 yds.

    Off track, but not far. Found out with my 5" XD that the manufacturer considers 3.5" 25 yard groups acceptable & any worse accuracy warrantable. Would have been a good thing for me to check into prior to purchase. Don't know guaranteed accuracy spec's for the two guns in question but a phone call to each manufacturer should give the answer.

    "And FWIW, in 3 years of USPSA and something like 50,000+rds of shooting, I've had my fiber pop out once, maybe twice"

    And yet they say IDPA guys run light loads . . . .
    :)
     

    rvb

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    The PPQ could be great, but that magwell is terrible.

    With the M&P, you've got a 50/50 shot of getting one that'll hold a group at 25 yds.

    This is exactly why I keep recommending to wait to buy something till you get a couple matches under your belt before buying dedicated gear. There is so much more to deciding which gun is better than which gun has the slightly better trigger pull. Actually, trigger pull is one of the least important aspects of the gun for practical shooting, imo. If you're rating a stock M&P trigger a 9/10, then you haven't ever experienced a good trigger anyway.

    reliability
    accuracy
    how easily the gun reloads.
    reliability
    what sights are available.
    what holsters are available.
    what grips or grip mods are available.
    reliability
    what division do you want to shoot in the two games (assuming you end up shooting both idpa and uspsa) and what necessary mods are legal in both?

    don't let a slightly loose factory fiber sway your decision. Go shoot and decide if you want fiber optic irons (maybe ask to see others' guns at the safe table). some folks do, some don't. Installed correctly, they almost never come out (I've yet to have one come out on me). [great, just jinxed myself].

    You said in your other thread you have a decent gun already. get 200 rounds, a $10 uncle mikes holster (yes, they're junk, but it'll do for a couple matches), put your mags in your back pocket, and go shoot a match. check out other folk's gear, ask questions, figure out what you like and don't like about your current gun.

    I am quite possibly asking for help and or advice that just isn't out there.

    IMO, it's sort of like asking which shoes you should buy. Ask 10 different shooters at a match what they are shooting and why and you'll get 10 different answers. Most people it's whatever they already had, then they change if there's something they don't like about what they are shooting. Why did you pick the XD you already have? What's wrong w/ it that a 9mm XD is not on your list?

    Why did I choose Beretta when I first started shooting competition? Because I owned a beretta. I bought a holster for it and went shooting.

    :twocents:

    -rvb
     

    GunSense LLC

    Plinker
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    Nov 19, 2013
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    I shoot IDPA with an M&P Pro. I probably have 10-15,000 rounds through mine.

    Couple comments on sights.

    My fiber came loose ocne, and I re-melted it. Then I lost it entirely. Fiber is cheap and it is something easily replaceable. Don't base your decision on the front fiber. That is like trying to decide between a Mustang and a Camaro, and picking the Camaro because the Mustang has a spot of bird poop on the windshield.

    However, on the subject of M&P Pro sights and accessories. The Pro has a narrower slide than a standard 4.25" M&P. I think the reason is so the slides have the same mass and can use the same recoil spring. I have a Comptech holster for my Pro and none of my other standard M&P's will fit, and the Pro is loose is a standard holster.

    The muzzle end of the slide is made different on the Pro than a standard. A standard M&P sight tool won't work.

    Also, because of the change in slide length, the standard M&P sights, of which there are a blue million, won't work. So, there are not nearly as many options with the Pro. However, there is probably still more than the PPQ.

    If you are looking for a race gun, I would put an Apex competition trigger in the Pro. I shot one a couple matches ago, and it is really nice. It is too light for a carry gun.

    If the Apex trigger is a 10/10, I would rate the Pro trigger as a 6 /10 and the standard as a 5/10.

    If you are looking at changing sights and trigger anyway, then look for a M&P 9L. They are probably cheaper than a pro, and the only differences you would be swapping out anyway.

    I personally don't like the blacked out rear sight on the Pro and have been messing with sights on my collections of M&P's. I actually shoot a 4.25" M&P better because I can get a sight picture faster with standard 3-dot sights, despite having a longer sight radius and better trigger in the pro. But, that is just me.
     

    jwo483

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    Westfield
    The PPQ trigger is better by far than any of the stock triggers discussed. IMO it is better than the Apex or a full blown $235 Vanek Glock trigger. I have shot the Glock, M&P Pro & XDm 5.25 a good bit in competition and the new FNS 5" extensively. Blind loyalty would be the only reason to rate another trigger higher. As far as accuracy here are the 1st 16 shots @ 15 yds to check my Dawson sight installation.

    14ke1z9.jpg


    Also the PPQ trigger is stock and could conceivably be carried concealed.
     
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    Sporky

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    Best advise you could ever get.............find someone that will let you shoot them!!!!!!

    I had an XPM....great gun! It just didn't work for me
    I had a Glock 34......great gun! It just didn't work for me
    I have a 1911......great gun! not enough bullets in the mag :)
    I have an M&P pro......great gun! I shoot that one the best out of all the striker fired guns I have shot.

    Trust me....I spent a ton on money finding out that I don't like a particular gun for one reason or another.
    All the other advise everyone has been giving you is great....but first things first. Go shoot as wide range of pistols as you can before you make any purchase.

    Good luck!
    Now go make some holes in some targets!!!
     

    ART338WM

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    Thanks so much to all for the superb advice I have so graciously been given so far. JWO483, sorry but I am unable to reply to a PM with PM yet, need to make 50 posts first, and thank you for the offer of shooting your PPQ M2, but I live in Whiting Indiana so distance would be a bit of problem for me to take advantage of your generous offer. That says allot about what type of person you are.

    As I already have a 5" XD Tactical in .45acp and a 3.5" XD SC HC in .40 and a .40 cal S&W M&P Shield, I will shoot them and ask to shoot other members of my clubs guns before I invest hundreds of $$$ in a new HG purchase. I must say I shot a 9mm M&P Pro that had a A/M trigger improvement at my first IDPA match that a member so graciously offered me to try. At 10 yards firing as quickly as I could get on target at two seperate IDPA sillowet targets I put 8 in the 0 zone in one and 9 in the others 0 zone. Not bad if I do say so considering I had never shot any model of a full sized M&P before and I had not fired my own HG's in quite some time and I'm not at all use to shooting at that type of target or it's 0 zone. And WOW is a 9mm easy to shoot VS a 45 acp.

    To answer a few questions, I didn't wish to buy a another XD in 9mm as I liked the triggers on the M&P and PPQ M2 better, but before I make any large investments in HG purchases, I must first come to realize and know the limits of my knowledge, which I'm coming to find/accept is quite a bit more limited, bordering on staggering.

    As I said in my original post, I am getting into IDPA for about 45% fun and 55% to become as good a pistol shot as my situation allows for given the accumelative time constraints of a working swing shifts, around 1000-1300hrs of OT a year and of course family comitments I only have so much spare time. And I also am trying to keep the cost of getting into the sport as reasonable as possible. Considering I will likely have to buy IDPA acceptable holsters for at least two of my guns, and if I am going to stick with this as I strongly suspect, a tac HG light and a holster for that set up because my club does one reduced light match per month and a decent tac light by Streamlight is only $71 W/SH at Amazon. So at this point I'm already looking at a considerable investment and I will fallow the excellent advice here to proceed slowly and only spend after much careful consideration based on as much hands on experience by myself as I cam accumulate.

    So at this point I will invest in a decent IDPA holster for my XD, buy 1 extra clip for each gun I plan on using, I will use the mag wells that came with both my XDs and do allot of shooting and trying out before deciding on a gun purchase.

    Thanks to all for the advice, it was exactly what I needed to be told, I thank you all for likely saving me from quite possibly making costly mistakes.
    Arthur.
     
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