Do you compete with what you carry?

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Do you compete with what you carry?


    • Total voters
      0

    chezuki

    Human
    Rating - 100%
    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,152
    113
    Behind Bars
    This came up in another thread and someone mentioned it would make an interesting poll... I agree, so here it is.

    This question is primarily geared towards Production shooters (and I suppose IDPA guys, though I know nothing about your divisions).

    Do you compete with the gun or guns (or at least the same model) that you actually carry on a daily basis? If not, why?



    For me, I started shooting USPSA Production a couple years ago with my carry gun (a full size M&P9). About half way through the season when I realized how many rounds I was putting through my daily carry, I picked up an M&P9 Pro to use as a dedicated competition gun that could still mirror and share mags with what I carry.
     
    Last edited:

    Drail

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 13, 2008
    2,542
    48
    Bloomington
    I have competed for years in USPSA with a single stack 1911 and it serves that purpose very well. My daily carry gun for even more years has always been a DA revolver. As much as I love 1911s and action shooting sports I simply do not trust a 1911 for carry use only because I have seen so many of them fail in competition for various reasons. Understand I am not claiming that a 1911 cannot be set up to be a reliable weapon but at the same time there are so many little things that can stop one from working. Revolvers can fail to function also but it is MUCH more rare in my experience. I also compete with revolvers and my experience has been that while they may be more reliable they do require more skill to shoot fast and accurately. But it can be learned if you work at it.
     

    loony1

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jan 17, 2010
    2,383
    48
    Southside Indy
    I started competing IDPA with my edc (glock 19) and did fairly well. However, I have worked on a new, "dedicated" pistol recently and it is a glock 34 gen 4.
     

    Vince49

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 13, 2010
    2,174
    38
    Indy urban west.
    The only competitions I participate in are the GSSF matches and an occasional FNS. I practice,compete with and carry the same G30 as my edc. I also practice and compete with a G17. My edc 30 has a little over 5000 rounds downrange and I recently treated it to a new recoil spring though the old one was still functioning just fine. It will soon be replaced by a G30 Gen.4 that I won in a match last summer but I fear that will be like breaking in a new pair of shoes. I feel that there is much comfort in my old moccasins and a gun that is just as familiar and comfortable.
     

    Vigilant

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,659
    83
    Plainfield
    I screwed up, I no longer shoot the gun I actually carry in competition, but an exact copy, down to the trigger replacement! I do however still take my carry to training classes, and my comp gun is the back up!
     

    VERT

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    23   0   0
    Jan 4, 2009
    9,801
    113
    Seymour
    I almost always shoot one of my 1911s. Last month I shot a borrowed revolver. Would never carry it though, too many failures.
     

    Que

    Meekness ≠ Weakness
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 98%
    48   1   0
    Feb 20, 2009
    16,373
    83
    Blacksburg
    I shoot IDPA (only competition available) and I shoot whatever feels good when I wake up that morning. There is no option for me and I only eat turkey bacon.
     

    Fuzz

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 27, 2013
    738
    18
    LaFONTAINE
    I don't carry my 1911 as a EDC but it's not that I would not. It's more a matter of comfort. I carry an XDs 45 because it just carries so nice and is light weight. Now if SHTF I would and keep the XDs as back up. But as a Daily life in Indiana I don't fore see going to war with a bunch of folks so comfort outweighs fire power.

    My pistol is only there to get me to my Rifle.
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,734
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    I carry 7 days a week. I am only a casual pistol competitor these days. When something bigger than a small revolver is appropriate, I open carry a 96 Beretta .40. The last few IDPA matches I was shooting a 92 Beretta 9mm. Same pistol as far as size weight and controls. I do not know if that gives me an edge or not. I shoot at least a couple of my pistols or revolvers every week. In 40 plus years, I think I have probably learned to do pretty well with all of them. I also have several guitars and basses plus a saxophone. They all feel different and have different qualties also. I can play them all too. The more I practice, the better I get.

    If you have one firearm and use it for everything, that is good. If you have several and train with them also, that is good too. If you have equipment you that you do not use for disciplined practice, you will be at a disadvantage.
     

    Coach

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
    Trainer Supporter
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 15, 2008
    13,411
    48
    Coatesville
    I usually shoot a competition gun. However, for most of 2014 I shot Single stack and I have and do sometimes carry that gun. I shot the last lowlight class at Parabellum with my carry gun. I changed the holster that I use Limited division so that I can carry that gun home from the match. I am planning to shoot a variety of guns this winter at indoor matches including carry guns.
     

    rvb

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 14, 2009
    6,396
    63
    IN (a refugee from MD)
    Primary carry is a j-frame, so no. But when I want to carry something more, it's similar to my match guns (eg when I was primarily shooting open my carry gun was a 1911, when shooing production, my carry gun is a G19). I've used my carry guns for competition and vice versa, but I don't generally due to the round count and abuse the match guns see as well as some minor setup differences.

    -rvb
     

    RobbyMaQ

    #BarnWoodStrong
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    35   0   0
    Mar 26, 2012
    8,963
    83
    Lizton
    I probably don't compete enough compared to most.
    I picked up my M&P pro for competition shooting. But I find myself shooting my edc (m&p9c) at FNS mostly.
    I find I shoot more consistent with the m&P9c. Likely because I shoot more often with it.
     

    Friction

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 21, 2014
    98
    8
    Terre Haute
    "yes, I use my actual carry gun, because Hick's law and whatnot... and I don't wish to be killed in the streets."

    This is really a misinterpretation of Hicks law. Simply put, it creates a mathematical formula that defines the relationship between the amount of options you have and the time it takes to choose an option to act on. It DOES NOT address muscle memory with regards to reacting to a given stimulus with a singular option for that response as anything other than a control for the formula. There are a ton of "instructors" out there that misquote the principles of this concept routinely which is likely why is is so widely misused and misunderstood.

    If you had all your guns lying on a table, or 2 guns, three knives, 5 flashlights and 14 spare mags on your belt at Walmart you would be negatively affected by the presence of those items with regards to selecting one of them for a given task if that task was based on a reaction to outside stimulus. That is a situation that could be quantified using principles from Hicks law.

    If you have one gun on your belt then at the moment you decide to use it, and the subsequent employment of that weapon in a proficient manor, are results of training and muscle memory not Hicks law.

    Prior to making the decision to use the weapon you would be faced with principles that could be measured/defined by Hicks law such as "Is this guy really a threat or am I misinterpreting the situation", "Can I run away", "did I just get shot", etc. Likewise, as part of the decision to use the weapon, if there were multiple targets then you would be affected by this principle as you choose and engagement sequence. However, as stated, the act of putting the weapon into operation, once committed to doing so, is not a factor of hicks law unless you have a gun that has more than 1 trigger, 2 or more sets of sites, 2 or more methods to disengage the safeties, etc.

    Cops discuss Hicks Law a bunch based on the escalation of force and the variety of options at their disposal for handling situations. Again, that concept is based on the options available to them, not the actual use of the particular firearm they are carrying once they decide to use it.

    There are nuances and second and third order issues associated with what I just explained but the bottom line when it comes to CC is that people that carry more than one tool for the job are more affecters by Hicks law then people that carry a singular, but different, tool every day.

    Additionally, USPSA could be considered negative training with regards to defensive shooting when specifically discussing issues measure by Hicks law, due to the fact that the number of engagement decisions is very limited and the initial action is triggered by a reaction to an audible signal not a decision. In essence, if its within 180 degrees and brown cardboard it OK to shoot after a standardized tone goes off near your head. That simplifies the thought process and decision matrix dramatically. It would be measurable using Hicks law if only half the brown cardboard targets had a green dot on them which was an indicator that they were valid targets. It would be measurable using Hicks law the range berms moves constantly to avoid a static definition of "down range". It would be measurable using Hicks law if the shot timers had three specific tones but only one of them was a valid and the other 2 would get you DQ'ed if you reacted. If those conditions were present then USPSA would more closely resemble real life with regards to the decisions process involved and how YOU processed those decisions.

    So to say you shoot USPSA with a carry gun specifically to minimize the decisions you need to make in a self defense environment is a difficult concept to validate in any legit discussion. To say that you shoot USPSA with the same gun you carry to gain proficiency with that weapon under stress and to improve your general handling/marksmanship skills is completely legit, but those issues are not measured using the formulas consistent with Hicks law.
     
    Last edited:

    MCgrease08

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    37   0   0
    Mar 14, 2013
    14,374
    149
    Earth
    To date my competition experience has been limited to FNS so I'm only competing against myself, but at the moment I do use my carry gun for many of the reasons mentioned at the end of Friction's post above.

    I want to know how that specific gun runs. I want to familiarize myself with manipulation, site picture, trigger pull, performance, etc. Basically I want the reps more than anything else.

    If I were going to pour more time and energy into competition I would consider a more finely tuned pistol.
     

    unshelledpilot

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 27, 2014
    365
    18
    Hammond
    I shoot IDPA (only competition available) and I shoot whatever feels good when I wake up that morning. There is no option for me and I only eat turkey bacon.

    You need to take your butt back to Canada. Turkey bacon?

    *throws up hands and walk out of room*
     

    chezuki

    Human
    Rating - 100%
    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,152
    113
    Behind Bars
    "yes, I use my actual carry gun, because Hick's law and whatnot... and I don't wish to be killed in the streets."

    This is really a misinterpretation of Hicks law. Simply put, it creates a mathematical formula that defines the relationship between the amount of options you have and the time it takes to choose an option to act on. It DOES NOT address muscle memory with regards to reacting to a given stimulus with a singular option for that response as anything other than a control for the formula. There are a ton of "instructors" out there that misquote the principles of this concept routinely which is likely why is is so widely misused and misunderstood.

    If you had all your guns lying on a table, or 2 guns, three knives, 5 flashlights and 14 spare mags on your belt at Walmart you would be negatively affected by the presence of those items with regards to selecting one of them for a given task if that task was based on a reaction to outside stimulus. That is a situation that could be quantified using principles from Hicks law.

    If you have one gun on your belt then at the moment you decide to use it, and the subsequent employment of that weapon in a proficient manor, are results of training and muscle memory not Hicks law.

    Prior to making the decision to use the weapon you would be faced with principles that could be measured/defined by Hicks law such as "Is this guy really a threat or am I misinterpreting the situation", "Can I run away", "did I just get shot", etc. Likewise, as part of the decision to use the weapon, if there were multiple targets then you would be affected by this principle as you choose and engagement sequence. However, as stated, the act of putting the weapon into operation, once committed to doing so, is not a factor of hicks law unless you have a gun that has more than 1 trigger, 2 or more sets of sites, 2 or more methods to disengage the safeties, etc.

    Cops discuss Hicks Law a bunch based on the escalation of force and the variety of options at their disposal for handling situations. Again, that concept is based on the options available to them, not the actual use of the particular firearm they are carrying once they decide to use it.

    There are nuances and second and third order issues associated with what I just explained but the bottom line when it comes to CC is that people that carry more than one tool for the job are more affecters by Hicks law then people that carry a singular, but different, tool every day.

    Additionally, USPSA could be considered negative training with regards to defensive shooting when specifically discussing issues measure by Hicks law, due to the fact that the number of engagement decisions is very limited and the initial action is triggered by a reaction to an audible signal not a decision. In essence, if its within 180 degrees and brown cardboard it OK to shoot after a standardized tone goes off near your head. That simplifies the thought process and decision matrix dramatically. It would be measurable using Hicks law if only half the brown cardboard targets had a green dot on them which was an indicator that they were valid targets. It would be measurable using Hicks law the range berms moves constantly to avoid a static definition of "down range". It would be measurable using Hicks law if the shot timers had three specific tones but only one of them was a valid and the other 2 would get you DQ'ed if you reacted. If those conditions were present then USPSA would more closely resemble real life with regards to the decisions process involved and how YOU processed those decisions.

    So to say you shoot USPSA with a carry gun specifically to minimize the decisions you need to make in a self defense environment is a difficult concept to validate in any legit discussion. To say that you shoot USPSA with the same gun you carry to gain proficiency with that weapon under stress and to improve your general handling/marksmanship skills is completely legit, but those issues are not measured using the formulas consistent with Hicks law.

    :faint:
     
    Top Bottom