Pistol Caliber Carbine - SC & USPSA

[romack991]

There has been some discussion on adding a pistol caliber carbines (PCC) division into Steel Challenge and possibly USPSA.

Would you shoot it?
Would it be good for Steel Challenge and/or USPSA?
What should the rules look like? Start position. Major/Minor. Capacity. Sights.
Do your club rules allow it? Pistol vs rifle use in bays - If no currently, do you think the club would make exceptions since it is pistol caliber?

 

[S8MS-01904]

Atlanta has allowed for Steel Challenge events. Listed under "CAR", no provisions for sights or mag capacity.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

Seems a number of clubs have allowed them for steel challenge for a while, I really hope it happens for uspsa. If it does, Ill be saving every nickel until I can pay for a JP GMR13

 

[blkrifle]

Riley allows for steel challenge.."car"

takes a rule change for USPSA

 

[singlesix]

MCFG allows them for Friday Night Steel.

 

[romack991]

Atlanta has allowed for Steel Challenge events. Listed under "CAR", no provisions for sights or mag capacity.

Yeah, I think it's a no brainier for SC since they already have rimfire rifles. The interesting part would be in USPSA matches. At first thought, I thought it was dumb because it's not a pistol. But once you get past that, I think it provides some interesting points.

• USPSA has greatly improved my pistol skills. I'd like to improve my rifle skills as well. This would provide a pretty good close range environment with inexpensive pistol ammo.
• USPSA has some of the funnest & challenging stages that I've seen. The 2 or 3 multi-gun matches I've been to are fun but simple. Very minimal stage planning. Shooting a carbine in a USPSA course would be just plain fun.
• People can shoot a rifle in a match without having to carry around all the extra crap needed for two additional guns.
• No staging and clearing multiple guns so the match still runs quickly.
• I think this would attract new people to the matches. Plus it would provide a substantial change for current shooters that might be looking for something a little different.

I would vote minor scoring. Open type of rules, no additional divisions for Irons.

Start position probably the biggest pain. I think the club would have to have a lot more table start options. IE pistol divisions have turn and draw from holster. PCC would need a table or something. Have low ready markers similar to SC. Could be simple though like painted mark on the ground.

I know we shoot USPSA in some "pistol only" bays but I think you could convince clubs to allow pistol carbines. Open shooters are already shooting higher velocity rounds. I don't think it adds any extra liability. However, if clubs don't approve, then it would be a problem that you have USPSA matches that don't allow all the divisions.

 

[mongo404]

I'm thinking a PCC match at ACC is going to happen this year with USPSA Rules. I think all minor scoring but allow a optics and a irons division
ACC already has a Carbine match with IDPA rules. (Paper only) Seems to do pretty well.

 

[BillD]

Use rifle calibers...
I don't want to buy a pistol caliber carbine. I will, but I don't want to.

Well actually, I guess I just need an upper and of course an optic and a bunch of other stuff.

 

[sporter]

Maybe tag a uspsa based PCC MATCH after a normal USPSA match at the same range. I would be in for that as attendance would be minimal starting out. Pick 3 or 4 of that days best field stages and run them with one or two squads PCC as a test.

I like the low ready ground mark.

I will finally have a use for that Colt.

Optic and Iron division is a good idea as Mongo stated.

Maybe have the division capacities in parallel with the optic - iron divide.

Irons 16+1 ?
Optic 30+1 ?

Score it all minor.

 

[romack991]

Use rifle calibers...
I don't want to buy a pistol caliber carbine. I will, but I don't want to.

Well actually, I guess I just need an upper and of course an optic and a bunch of other stuff.

Rifle calibers bring in a lot of issues. Steel quality and safe engagement distance the primary two. Also it would be a no go for certain clubs since they will not allow rifle in certain bays. Pistol caliber won't be any worse than an open gun.

 

[bigcraig]

I am some what interested, but my PCC is suppressed. I would just hate to have to build another upper for it, hate too!

 

[KJQ6945]

You have my attention....

 

[blkrifle]

Rifle calibers bring in a lot of issues. Steel quality and safe engagement distance the primary two. Also it would be a no go for certain clubs since they will not allow rifle in certain bays. Pistol caliber won't be any worse than an open gun.

i use the same 9mm load in both my 5" open steel gun and my CMMG pcc. Noticably impacts the steel a lot harder than the pistol.

 

[kevinsr98]

Does that mean a guy could show up to a uspsa match with a pcc and his handgun, pay two entry fees and shoot both divisions?
if so, hell yeah! More shooting= more fun!

 

[BillD]

Rifle calibers bring in a lot of issues. Steel quality and safe engagement distance the primary two. Also it would be a no go for certain clubs since they will not allow rifle in certain bays. Pistol caliber won't be any worse than an open gun.

I get that you can't use one on steel. But not every stage has steel. If this becomes a thing...
Ah hell, I'll just buy a 9mm AR and play.

 

[BillD]

Does that mean a guy could show up to a uspsa match with a pcc and his handgun, pay two entry fees and shoot both divisions?
if so, hell yeah! More shooting= more fun!

That's the way I'd like to see it. Run the COF with one gun and then run it again, at the end of your squad with the other gun. I wouldn't stay after the pistol match to shoot this but I'd shoot it during the normal match. It would just be like having another shooter on the same squad, just account for the number of guns and not number of shooters when setting up the squads.

 

[mongo404]

Would only be at level 1 matches I believe

 

[kevinsr98]

That's the way I'd like to see it. Run the COF with one gun and then run it again, at the end of your squad with the other gun. I wouldn't stay after the pistol match to shoot this but I'd shoot it during the normal match. It would just be like having another shooter on the same squad, just account for the number of guns and not number of shooters when setting up the squads.

My thoughts exactly

 

[mongo404]

I get that you can't use one on steel. But not every stage has steel. If this becomes a thing...
Ah hell, I'll just buy a 9mm AR and play.

Do you really need a excuse??

 

[BillD]

Do you really need a excuse??

Oh, yeah, I think they are STUPID!
Why would anyone want the same size gun shooting a pistol caliber when it could be a .223, 300 blk, 6.8 or any of the much more hard hitting rifle calibers?
Range toy? I'd rather practice with the .223.
Cheaper ammo is the only plus I see.