Patrick Sweeney Article In Guns and Ammo

[Coach]

Just received my most recent Guns and Ammo magazine today. Septemner 2008: Pages 26-27 the Patrick Sweeney article regarding competition. I love it. Pulls no punches and speaks the the truth. Like it or not, that is the way it is. Deal with it.

I subscribed to Guns and Ammo to hear from Jeff Cooper. When he passed I thought about dropping it. I like Richard Venola about 75% of the time so I lingered, but Patrick Sweeny is my real reason for keeping it.

Competition is fun and valuable. Many LEO steer clear, and that speaks volumes. I would rather have anyone from the bottom one third of a results page of a local USPSA competition by my side than 90% of the LEO in the local area if the SHTF.

Read the article and let me know if you agree or not.

 

[notasccrmom]

Any chance it's on the internet anywhere? I don't get G&A.

 

[Coach]

Any chance it's on the internet anywhere? I don't get G&A.

GASP! Your parents must be so disappointed.

 

[obijohn]

mr sweeney is a great guy, fun to speak with. as coach says, patrick tends to tell the truth as he sees it, so don't ask if you don't want to hear.....

 

[rhino]

He's been around a long time too, with feet in both the gun games camp as well as the "tactical" camp for many years.

 

[notasccrmom]

Ok, so I read it. Very straight forward and he didn't sugarcoat anything. I think he hit the nail on the head by saying that IPSC style shooting "makes your gunhandling an unconsciously competent skill. It primes you and practices you to react with some corrective action in the event that something goes wrong rather than stand there and ask yourself 'Now what?'"

He also makes some very good points about being forced to practice what you aren't good at when shooting in matches, instead of what you like to practice (which is always what you are good at). His comments on the people of the sport are very spot on as well.

A very good read.
Thanks Coach!

 

[rhino]

He also makes some very good points about being forced to practice what you aren't good at when shooting in matches, instead of what you like to practice (which is always what you are good at). His comments on the people of the sport are very spot on as well.

That's a really good point. And it also brings to light another reason why people either won't try or quit practical shooting sports: because they aren't as good at it as they want or think they should be.

This arose during our "Berm Aid" match a couple of years ago, and I said something that Coach included in his match report published in Front Sight magazine. I don't remember my exact words, but it was something like, "If I only did things I was good at doing, I'd be limited to watching television and running my mouth."

 

[notasccrmom]

That's a really good point. And it also brings to light another reason why people either won't try or quit practical shooting sports: because they aren't as good at it as they want or think they should be.

This brings us to another good part of the article. Sweeney mentions that people with big egos usually don't stick around practical shooting very long.
It's definitely an environment where you should leave your ego at the door.

That's part of what made practical shooting so appealing to me. Everyone, even the experienced shooters, were very friendly and helpful to a beginner in the sport. You don't find that too often in other competitive games.

 

[indyjoe]

Shooting a couple competitions of IPSC was one thing that drastically improved my shooting and confidence. It also allowed me to think up better scenarios to setup at the range to improve training on my own time.

 

[rhino]

You guys "get it."

In addition, there are several "big name" guys who are worshipped in the "tactical" community who would not be anywhere near their level of shooting skills had it not been for practical shooting competition. Some examples: Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, the late Ray Chapman, etc. Even the late Jim Cirillo was a huge proponent of shooting in competition and was a successful PPC shooter.

 

[Barry in IN]

Whether it's IPSC or IDPA: It is whatever you make of it.

With IPSC in particular, some people like to stand back and claim that it's "not relevent" because of people using guns that nobody would carry on the street and the lack of tactics like standing in the open to reload.
So don't do those things.
Nobody makes you shoot a multi-chamber compensated, 23 round gun, or reload in the open.

If you want to use your carry gun from concealment to test your gear, use what cover is available, and see if you really do what you practice when under a little bit of pressure...then feel free.
If you want to get the latest high speed blaster just because you like playing with top fuel dragsters of guns...go ahead.
If you just want to hang around gun people for half a day...great.

And I suppose if one chooses to sit home on the weekend and complain about how IPSC "isn't relative" while their gun gathers dust, that's their right too.

Personally, I think going shooting beats talking about shooting, and shooting IPSC however I please does me a lot more "real world" good than sitting at home saying it's a silly game.

 

[indyjoe]

Do they still have two "divisions"? I know when I shot it, there was stock and unlimited. I always shot with my carry rig. Mainly because I was a poor college student and couldn't afford anything else, but also because it was good training.

 

[notasccrmom]

USPSA has quite a few divisions:

Production
Limited
Limited-10
Open
Single Stack
Revolver

 

[Barry in IN]

Do they still have two "divisions"? I know when I shot it, there was stock and unlimited. I always shot with my carry rig. Mainly because I was a poor college student and couldn't afford anything else, but also because it was good training.

I don't worry too much about using a gun that puts me in a divison where I'm competitive (like the gun will help me). I usually shoot a Browning HiPower, which puts me in Limited class.
Shooting Limited with a minor-caliber gun that only holds 13 rounds is not the way to be competitive. Most limited guns are major caliber (.40 and up) that hold 1.5X as many rounds as mine.
But big deal. That's not why I go.
I go to use my carry gear to see that it works and that I do what I'm supposed to do by reflex. It sounds like you did the same.

 

[indyjoe]

I don't worry too much about using a gun that puts me in a divison where I'm competitive (like the gun will help me). I usually shoot a Browning HiPower, which puts me in Limited class.
Shooting Limited with a minor-caliber gun that only holds 13 rounds is not the way to be competitive. Most limited guns are major caliber (.40 and up) that hold 1.5X as many rounds as mine.
But big deal. That's not why I go.
I go to use my carry gear to see that it works and that I do what I'm supposed to do by reflex. It sounds like you did the same.

Yep. And if I decided to start again, I would do the same. Even thought I now have the affluence to afford a "race gun" if I wanted. I'm competing first and foremost with myself.

 

[Coach]

Yep. And if I decided to start again, I would do the same. Even thought I now have the affluence to afford a "race gun" if I wanted. I'm competing first and foremost with myself.

Indyjoe, no disrespect meant, but I am not clear on what you mean by competing against yourself. Can you explain?

 

[Pami]

Indyjoe, no disrespect meant, but I am not clear on what you mean by competing against yourself. Can you explain?

Just guessing, but based on conversations I've had with other people who compete "just for the fun of it" and "against himself" ..

He goes to improve upon the last time he participated in a competition. I scored X last time, can I shoot just as well, but faster? Or, can I maintain my timing, but shoot better? Along those lines.... Use it more as a practice session rather than a competition. Who cares what someone else did, so long as you continue to improve?

 

[indyjoe]

Indyjoe, no disrespect meant, but I am not clear on what you mean by competing against yourself. Can you explain?

Just guessing, but based on conversations I've had with other people who compete "just for the fun of it" and "against himself" ..

He goes to improve upon the last time he participated in a competition. I scored X last time, can I shoot just as well, but faster? Or, can I maintain my timing, but shoot better? Along those lines.... Use it more as a practice session rather than a competition. Who cares what someone else did, so long as you continue to improve?

Close Pami. I meant by competing with myself, improving my skills and seeing it. To me, the score isn't as important as building the practical skills. I want to see that my skills continued to improve in a real work sense. Personally, I see a much bigger deduction than the score shows for hostage hits, etc.

 

[rhino]

We should add that Barry does his own thing and he STILL does very well in the actual competition. That's one of the reason for which I have a lot of respect for him. A lot of guys talk a big game about how they are "tactical" and are playing the gun games (usually IDPA) to improve their skills. Then when they don't "win," they whine about it. If they were really practicing their defensive skills, it shouldn't matter where they place in the competition, and yet . . . it does to them.

 

[Barry in IN]

Thanks, Rhino.
I never hesitate to whine whenever I can, though!.