How Useful is Competition

[Coach]

These are three posts from the Brian Enos Forum. These are posts that do two things. Talk about Law Enforcement Qualification and the value that competition may bring to the real world of LEO's. I originally post them in another thread. It was suggested I put them here. I aim to please so here it is.
************************************************

"I'm a new USPSA shooter. I've only shot in 5 local club matches, and a Steel Challange. I'm also a 30 year law enforcement veteran. I've read several thread postings on various forums and have spoke to a few fellow USPSA shooters who believe that USPSA, IDPA, Glock Sport Shooters ect. are "just games" and have no practical use as good tactical or defensive training.
My department holds weapon qualification once a year. We shoot 50 rounds starting out at the 7 yard line and moving out to 25 yards. We only do 2 slow and easy mandatory reloads and our target kill zone is 8.5"x14".
If you make most of your hits at the 7 and 14 yard lines, you can totally blow your shots at the 25 yard line and still qualify to carry your weapon. Most of the guys I work with only fire their duty and off duty weapons once a year. Before joining USPSA, I only shot a few times a year myself.

My first USPSA match as an onserver was a bit of an eye opener for me. I decided at my current skill level I would never want to engage even a Class C ranked shooter in a real life tactical situation.

Compared to my once a year department qualification, I believe USPSA shooting is providing me with some good practical defensive and offensive shooting skills. I'm engaging multiple targets while moving, speed reloading and having to plan which target to engage at which time. In my opinion, as an LEO, the "gun games" are providing me with the training I would probably never get any other way. As an added plus, the gun games are a real blast.

************************************************** *********************************

As a fellow LEO and firearms instructor I know exactly what you're talking about. When people ask me I usually tell them that USPSA shooting is possibly the best training there is for gun handling and fast accuracy skills you can find. Sure, in a swat situation you'll slice the pie around a corner etc, but training on that stuff ("tactics") doesn't teach you to put fast, accurate hits on target or to make really hard shots under pressure and/or while moving, leaning, off balance etc. Take the positives of gun handling skills, speed and accuracy under pressure and then combine those with the tactical stuff and you have the best of both worlds. The vast majority of LEO shootings are reactive in nature...guy jumps out of his car and points a gun at you, or you come around a corner and find a bad guy with a knife waiting for you....that's when being able to get your gun out quickly and put accurate rounds on target FAST means everything...and that's the core of what USPSA teaches you. It just happens to also be a lot of fun
************************************************** *********************************
Gotta disagree with you Mark and agree with the others and especially CDRODA396, given his experience. I can tell you while "tactics" is something that is a completely different skill set, my experience in USPSA/IPSC/3-Gun is directly responsible for keeping me alive on 2 overseas deployments."

 

[obijohn]

for any student of the gun, leo or civilian, shooting competition can have great utility. manual of arms, thinking through an exercise (stage) heck, just the trigger time is benificial. add the artificially induced stress (the timer) and the action shooting sports benefit all who shoot them. ymmv

 

[Pami]

I'm sold on the idea that competition shooting is great practice for improving certain skill sets. (Have been sold on that for a few months, actually.)

What are the positives/negatives over IDPA vs. USPSA vs. Steel ?

I haven't seen a steel match yet, but the couple of times I've shot at a steel plate, I'm not very good at it....

IDPA seemed to be very similar to USPSA to me, except with a LOT more rules... but I've only seen one of each type of match, and I'm not sure which rules were "range" rules and which rules were "competition" rules.

 

[rhino]

The main difference between USPSA/IDPA and steel is the movement and reloads. In steel challenge-type matches, movement is uncommon and it will be minimal if it is required at all. Reloads are rarely necessary and if you reload, you're way behind the curve anyway.

You are right that USPSA and IDPA are very similar, which makes sense since IDPA is essentially an offshoot of USPSA/IPSC. Originally IDPA was purported to be a sport intended to get back to the "roots" of IPSC before it became so much of a game with an equipment race. That belied the real history of IPSC, in which the pressure to find the most efficient way to win (both skills and equipment-wise) was the entire purpose from the beginning. LtCol Cooper and his contemporaries were interested in finding out what worked the best.

You're also on the right track about rules. While USPSA may technically have more rules, it's because we have to many details! The key difference is that IDPA rules are far more restrictive in terms of what you can use and how you use it. USPSA allows you significantly more freedom to use whatever kind of gear you want and to shoot the match any way you want as long as you adhere to safety restrictions. USPSA is also more thinking-intensive, as nearly all IDPA stages have a predetermined order of target engagement and procedures, with penalties for deviating from that recipe. In USPSA, almost all stages other than classifiers are "shoot 'em when you see 'em" and the shooter is required to solve the problem their own way.

 

[Pami]

The main difference between USPSA/IDPA and steel is the movement and reloads. In steel challenge-type matches, movement is uncommon and it will be minimal if it is required at all. Reloads are rarely necessary and if you reload, you're way behind the curve anyway.

<snip>

You're also on the right track about rules. While USPSA may technically have more rules, it's because we have to many details! The key difference is that IDPA rules are far more restrictive in terms of what you can use and how you use it. USPSA allows you significantly more freedom to use whatever kind of gear you want and to shoot the match any way you want as long as you adhere to safety restrictions. USPSA is also more thinking-intensive, as nearly all IDPA stages have a predetermined order of target engagement and procedures, with penalties for deviating from that recipe. In USPSA, almost all stages other than classifiers are "shoot 'em when you see 'em" and the shooter is required to solve the problem their own way.

Thanks for the explanation, Rhino.

I actually thought that IDPA had more rules because of the "shoot in this order" procedures.

 

[Barry in IN]

I'd like to try and back up what Rhino said about the difference in rules between IDPA and IPSC.

I shoot both disciplines the same way (carry gun, from concealment, etc) and for the same reason- to get some practice with my carry gun in scenarios or stages that I can't set up by myself. Shooting in a match also gives a little pressure that shooting alone can't do. I use my daily carry gear to get that much more practice with it.

You might naturally think that IDPA works better for my needs, but that's not always the case. I may place higher in an IDPA match, but IPSC often works better for me in one important way.

Like Rhino said-
An IDPA scenario is set up and you are told to shoot it THIS way.
An IPSC stage is set up and you are told to solve the problem as you see fit (within safety limitations).

Sometimes I don't think IDPA's way is the best way. Most of the time, I agree with their plan. But sometimes, I think their way is far from the best and not how I would shoot it in real life.
So I have the choice of shooting it their way which is practice at doing the wrong thing, or shooting it my way and eating the penalty. I usually eat the penalty, because once you take one shortcut, it's easy to take a bunch more.

There are other things in IDPA I disagree with- like the tactical reload- but I can just take the penalty and go on. It's not like I can't do it my way.

Not to sound like I'm putting down IDPA. I'd rather shoot an IDPA match than an IPSC match, honestly. But they both serve my needs if I use them properly.
So don't rule out one or the other just because you don't think it will work for you.

 

[Coach]

I have had three situtations where I have had my gun drawn with the distinct possibility of having to use it for self-defense. Thankfully I have never had to pull the trigger. All of these events were before I began competing in USPSA.

I can safely say it was a high stress senario each time. Sometimes taking a long long time to calm down. Competition is valuable in many ways. I am much more confident with a gun in my hand now than I was then. I am a much better gun handler, and a much better shot. I also think the pressure of the timer and the crowd watching helps simulate that tension.

 

[pierce195]

For the LE end of USPSA I can say this. Shooting USPSA over the past few years and translated to better scores for me on the department/ILEA qualifications. As I have imporved in USPSA my overall department shooting has improved.

The plus side is you get to met a lot of good people while shooting USPSA outside of LE area that enjoy shooting.

 

[GetA2J]

I totally agree with the training aspect of organized shooting sports!!!!