Planting trees

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  • Echelon

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    My Wife and I purchased ~6ac of "farm land" over the winter. It is completely bare, We're going to build a home and garage/workshop later this year. I'll be converting the bare field to grass this spring, starting a garden finally, and want to get as many trees planted as possible.

    So, when is the best time to plant containerized (retail) trees? Any difference for bare root? I've noticed all the home stores have gotten lots of trees in already, so I'd love to start buying and planting as soon as is safe.

    Any tips for me? We're going from less than 1/4ac, to almost 6, so I'm beyond excited. While this place might not be my perfect prep/SHTF location, it will beat living in Indy. My dreams are bigger than my wallet, so I'm sure it will be a test of my patience. :):
     

    skulhedface

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    If the trees are still dormant they can be planted any time the ground is thawed enough to dig the hole. If they're starting to bud, I would wait until there was no threat of frost for a week or two to give them time to get established. Might not be necessary though. I haven't experienced any difference with bare root vs potted. Congrats, I've been trying to do the same for the same reasons, maybe next year. May also look at home depot, used to be (don't know for sure that it still is) if you bought a plant there and it didn't make it, you could throw it back in the pot and return it. Just save the pot and receipt.
     

    snapping turtle

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    Indiana natural resources has bare root trees for just what you are wanting to do. A forester can/will even come out and sample the soil and drainage to help you choose the correct trees for the area. I am a big fan of the shaggy bark hickory and pin oak/white pine combos. They also sell wildlife packages.
     

    dirtfarmerz

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    If you're planting on ground that was farmed, you will have to feed the trees. There's nothing left in typical farm ground. Crops wouldn't grow if the farmers didn't fertilize. You'll have a difficult time planting grass. You could plant rye grass and till it in May, that would put a little "green manure" in the ground. I would dump liquid kelp and fish emulsion around the trees. Some kind of critter manure a couple of feet away from the tree. Prune the tree way back and it'll grow out thick. Apple trees get pruned "open center".

    Bare root or potted doesn't matter. Plant the trees deep and fertilize. Putting grass clippings or straw around the trees will help keep the ground from drying out too fast. If you plant fruit trees always increase the recommended distance between the trees. The more mature the trees you buy are, the sooner you'll see fruit. Three year old trees are probably 1" in diameter. If you like plums, find Early Golden or Early Magic. Liberty apples don't have the pest problems that other types suffer with.

    If you have a lot of clay, don't use a post hole digger; dig a bigger hole and try to get some better dirt for fill. That will give the tree a chance to survive.
     

    Slawburger

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    Think about what type of tree you want carefully. Flowers you plant and can change next year, trees require a longer term plan. Do you want shade, fruit, windbreak, screening? Think about how the tree will look in 10-20 years and plan your spacing accordingly. Do you need to plant multiples of the same tree for pollination? Is the tree hardy enough for your zone? Do you mind "messy" trees that shed fruit, seed pods and branches? Weeping willow is nice but not over your lateral lines. Do you want to attract deer (they love persimmon).
     

    Tandem160

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    Contact your DNR district biologist and district forester. Both are the most complete and knowledgable "free" resources available to you. You've already paid for them though your taxes. Also if your ground was farm ground contact the USDA they have a conservation department that will give you soil types and a history of your property. I've done a very similar thing just a couple of years ago. These easy to use and helpful people will help you to succeed in your plans.

    Please don't just got to a big box and buy pretty trees and stick them in the ground. Native trees and forbs (bushes type stuff) for critters is the way to go. Message me and I maybe answer some basic questions you may have. Good luck
     

    rhart

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    jmariot is spot on. Contact DNR. They will send you an inventory of bare root trees. They sell for .25 to 2.00 each if I remember right. I have planted tens of thousands of these over the years. If you don't plant on watering in dry months expect a 50% survival rate. Also, I would suggest some fast growing trees such as poplar and pine. I also like locust especially for the honey bees and also a great firewood.
     

    Libertarian01

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    To Echelon (et alia),

    I have used the Arbor Day Foundation for fruit trees. They arrive small and take a while to grow but you have a choice of many different types.

    Buy Trees and Learn About Trees - Visit our Online Nursery

    I chose fruit trees and tried to work out a schedule where the fruit would be ready in different monthes, spreading out the harvest. That way I wouldn't be slammed at one (1) time in the year to enjoy.

    My problem was with the soil and weeds. In NE Indiana the clay content is significant and I followed standard protocols by digging a hole to plant them in. BAD idea! Here the clay acts like a bowl and when the rain came it drowned my poor trees. I need to pile up normal planting dirt on top of the clay and try again. The weeds were hard to control because I had put chicken wire fences 6' tall around them to protect from deer.

    Deer will come in and chew a tree right down until it gets big enough for this to not happen. For city folk deer are cute, sweet, wonderful, harmless animals full of love and joy!:) For country folk deer are damned destructive nasty evil varmints that will destroy your crops and plants!:xmad:

    The Allen County Extension Office was a great help! I was able to give them soil samples and had them tested. For five (5) of my trees I need to put down sulfur to control the acidity of the soil. They also told me about the "bowl effect" of clay soil, alas it was too late.

    If you choose fruit trees be certain to remember that you may need two (2) in some cases to cross pollinate, or another tree nearby that will cross pollinate between species.

    You can also go with nut trees as well. I already have a lot of those so it was unnecessary for me to purchase.

    Good luck with whatever you choose!

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    philo

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    The DNR nursery ( my office) still has seedlings available for most species we grow. This link will tell you how to go about getting trees. DNR: Instructions for Ordering Tree Seedlings

    The costs will be around $32.80 per hundred for most species. The most expensive are some specialty seedlings in bundles of 50, at something like $.75 each.


    Unfortunately district foresters will only help you with your planting plans if you have more than 10 acres. There are, however, many private consulting foresters within the state that would work with you. If you have questions about what would be appropriate to plant in various areas/conditions just call the Vallonia Nursery, we'd be happy to give you some advice.
     

    indychad

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    Great for you. I cleared and built 17 yrs ago and wish I had done things differently. Now I have learned about permaculture. There was a class this Jan. that discussed this. Way cool. If I were you, I would find an expert in this field and have them help me design my property correctly the first time. One of the co speakers was Rick Beach. Wolf-Beach Farms | Growing and teaching sustainable and healthy food production Nice guy and pretty knowledgable on this subject. He is helping us design our place now. The cost,IMO, will be worth gold if I ever have to feed my family off our land. Google permaculture and hold on. It's exciting stuff if you want to homestead.
     

    indyjohn

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    Thank you INGO folks. This is an awesome thread, knowledge I did not have before. DNR help is free? That is so valuable. Permaculture? Completely new information.

    So cool.
     

    Echelon

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    Contact your DNR district biologist and district forester. Both are the most complete and knowledgable "free" resources available to you. You've already paid for them though your taxes. Also if your ground was farm ground contact the USDA they have a conservation department that will give you soil types and a history of your property. I've done a very similar thing just a couple of years ago. These easy to use and helpful people will help you to succeed in your plans.

    Please don't just got to a big box and buy pretty trees and stick them in the ground. Native trees and forbs (bushes type stuff) for critters is the way to go. Message me and I maybe answer some basic questions you may have. Good luck

    Thank you, I honestly never considered contacting DNR, I assumed my "scale" wasn't large enough. I'll look into them. I don't plan to just buy and plant at random, I'm trying to think this out the best I can.

    Think about what type of tree you want carefully. Flowers you plant and can change next year, trees require a longer term plan....

    Thanks, I do agree, and I'm trying to do my best to plan this out. Going from a blank canvas to a beautiful property filled with beautiful and native trees.

    The DNR nursery ( my office) still has seedlings available for most species we grow. This link will tell you how to go about getting trees. DNR: Instructions for Ordering Tree Seedlings...

    Roughly how big are these? 6" - 1'? I'll probably put an order in, and do some planting with them, but I'd also like to have some more mature trees as well to stagger my growth.



    I can't quote everyone, but I do appreciate all the help and advice. I'm honestly surprised I got as many responses as I did. :ingo:

    When my wife and I started our search, my make or break items were... wooded, and space for a small range if I wanted. The places I liked the best were "too far" for my better half, so we ended up on a bare 6ish ac lot just a few minutes from civilization. I doubt we will stay here forever, and I'm sure my "country" home will be surrounded by subdivisions within 15-20 years, it is a step in the right direction. While I wish the land was still wooded, and hadn't been cleared by a farmer many years ago, the fact that I am making a semi-permanent change to the landscape isn't lost on me, and I'm trying my best to make wise decisions that are naturally sustainable, and good for the local environment. There are a couple non-native trees I'm positive we will plant, my wife loves the Japanese Cherry trees, and I love the Aspen tree, but I'd like to stay as native as possible on the majority of my trees.

    So those that have gone down this road before, what traps or mistakes did you make that I can "learn" from? The one thing I have learned very quickly is the immense amount of time and planning this will take. Everything from where to place the drive, to homesite location, to choosing the best pathway for utilities and where to place solar panels, all the way down to the simple things like tree types and locations, and where to best put our garden are all in some way affected by the other decisions that are made. Some are easy to fix if you don't like it later, and some can't be fixed without major cost and pain.
     

    Echelon

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    Thank you INGO folks. This is an awesome thread, knowledge I did not have before. DNR help is free? That is so valuable. Permaculture? Completely new information.

    So cool.

    I agree! This thread is a lot better than I thought it would be! I thought I'd get one or more "you can plant now", or "wait til may" type responses.... I never dreamed the information that would be provided! :ingo:
     

    Echelon

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    Depending on species, DNR seedlings will be from 12 inches to 6 feet. More average sizes run between 18 and 30a inches

    Might be a silly question... Do you have to buy by the 100? or can I mix and match the 100?
     

    Rikkrack

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    DNR have nice bundles. Like a nut tree bundle (maybe 25 trees). Rule of thumb generally is plant trees with months that have an "R" in them. However I buy my fruiting trees at 50-75% off. Worth it, if you like risk, and chances until May-June. Most big box stores clearance the trees out. You just have to stay on top of watering them. Done this for 4 years and maybe lost 1 tree. Risk in that they may not have the trees or variety you want at that time. But if you don't care as long as it produces food, take a chance. Planting a permaculture food forest is a great way to plan out the future. I would highly recommend watching the free videos at www.geofflawton.com you do give you e-mail, but the ONLY thing I have ever gotten from them or as a result of using my email is notices when new videos are out. Geoff is who issued my permaculture design certificate. If you have permaculture or food forest questions, I am local here on the south side Indy, and travel regularly to people's places around the state.
     

    BigBoxaJunk

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    Lots of good advice here. I've planted many trees on my place, some from Arbor Day Foundation (be surprised how quickly those little twigs can become a tree), some from high-dollar nurseries, some clearance-priced fruit trees, and my nicest trees are ones that I dug myself and moved to my place. The trees I dug myself came from several properties owned by friends and all I had to do was to haul some dirt to fill the holes after I took the trees. Digging the trees myself gave me the opportunity to get some nice hardwood trees that were as big as eight feet tall and four inches in diameter, that would have cost a lot from a nursery, free but for the work. And you have to be ready to do some heavy work to get a three-foot root ball out of the ground. After twelve years or so, I have one White Ash that's like 20 feet tall and almost a foot in diameter. The only thing I'd do differently in hind-sight is that I wouldn't have planted Ash as shade trees near the house. When I planted them, Ash was the best choice for my area, but in the meantime, the Emerald Ash borer came on the scene and I get to look at my wonderful nice trees, just getting big enough to make some good shade, and I know they'll be dying in the next few years probably.
     

    Loco179

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    If anyone is interested. The DNR has some support trees for a food forest. Not many but still saving you cash.
     
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